Question for Catholics

[vulturesrow]

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Misunderstanding? Even the crusades, huh? Just a misunderstanding that people were murdered because of a heretical thought or opposing belief. ok.

i guess it really wasn't that big a deal, huh?

The nazi comparison is comparable. Many people have died because of religious differences in the name of the catholic church and/or christianity itself. Note the wonderful vatican also showed support for the nazis. After all, they were killing followers of a 'competing' religion.


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The misunderstanding I referred to was your apparent lack of knowledge of the Inquisition or the Crusades. I am not trying to whitewash anything here. There were some bad acts committed in the name of the Church.

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Oh, well then it's perfectly fine how the church has handled that then...

Please keep giving them money. They need it for better lawyers.



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The reason for pointing out the pedophilia incidents were unique to American Catholic Church was a) a response to Dead's theory about celibacy being the cause of that and b) to point out that the pedophilia probably had more to do with general state of American culture than anything to do with the Church.

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This includes the vatican. Front and center.

They thank you for your support.


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Dont be a nit Bernie. I think it is fairly obvious that was a typo. In case it isnt, let me say, I dont support the cover up of these incidents and just for the record some members of the hierarchy did call those guilty to account.

Id also like to address this :

[ QUOTE ]
The nazi comparison is comparable. Many people have died because of religious differences in the name of the catholic church and/or christianity itself. Note the wonderful vatican also showed support for the nazis. After all, they were killing followers of a 'competing' religion.


[/ QUOTE ] and this:

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Have you ever even read what the church did in the past? Including when the nazis were in power? The nazis weren't the first ones to try genocide on a grand scale.


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1. Explain to me when the Catholic chuch tried to commit genocide.
2. Explain to me how the Church supported the Nazis.


Im quite certain you have nothing that even approaches the realm of credibility to post in regards to those two questions.



Fact remains, that just because the Church is made up of imperfect people who have at times done bad things, doesnt invalidate the Church as an institution.

If you think otherwise, maybe you should renounce your U.S. citizenship since we killed all those Indians back in the day huh?

[Dead]

Apparently Bernie is a believer in collective guilt.

[bernie]

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The reason for pointing out the pedophilia incidents were unique to American Catholic Church was b) to point out that the pedophilia probably had more to do with general state of American culture than anything to do with the Church

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I don't think pedophilia is limited to american culture. I think it's more publicized in american culture, not more likely to happen.

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and just for the record some members of the hierarchy did call those guilty to account.

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Yes, they dragged their feet and recommended no jail time for the offenders. Rather wanting to handle it from within. Then they conveniently pulled the rug out from under american churches so they wouldn't be held financially liable for any lawsuits brought by the victims. If you put your kid in a chain daycare center, and someone molested him. It's akin to the entity to say, sorry, he's just an employee. We don't pay for their actions even if it was in our place of business. Like that would ever fly.

Yes, they did wonders and should recieve accolades.

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1. Explain to me when the Catholic chuch tried to commit genocide

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Start with the Albaginsian crusade of 1109. They even killed many of their own followers in the process. Are you denying that they tried to wipe out heretics and followers of other religions(muslims)? How about much of southern france?

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2. Explain to me how the Church supported the Nazis.

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Letting nazis take roman/italian jews to the nazis. It's been speculated whether they turned over italian jews to them. Harboring nazi officials. I think the pope actually addressed this issue a couple years ago, apologizing for the vaticans actions during that time.

Big whoop.

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Im quite certain you have nothing that even approaches the realm of credibility to post in regards to those two questions

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You must really have a distorted, lily white view of the church and vatican to deny that there would be any examples that have been documented on either issues. Especially if you can so easily just brush it to the side and actually call them, misunderstandings. Wow.

b

[bernie]

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Apparently Bernie is a believer in collective guilt

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How much more would they have to do to finally force you to abandon them?

That said, you can have the same beliefs while not patronizing their church. They've shown that they've done more than enough to deserve it. But again, for some reason, they get let off the hook. Name another entity that has done even close to what they've done in their past and yet still gets supported in droves. Who else do you/would you put up with this from?

It's absolutely amazing.

b

[Dead]

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How much more would they have to do to finally force you to abandon them?

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Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

I'm NOT Catholic. I'm Jewish.

Therefore, none of the rest of your post applies to me.

[bernie]

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Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

I'm NOT Catholic. I'm Jewish.

Therefore, none of the rest of your post applies to me.

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My question still stands. Would you willingly support an entity that has a similar history of atrocity? You don't have to be catholic to answer that question as it doesn't have to pertain to a religion.

Do you have a problem with a simple question?

Btw...If you want to play the 'jewish' card, why are you in a thread about catholics? How's your reading comprehension?

b

[Dead]

Why are you in the thread if you aren't Catholic? And don't use the phrase "Jewish card" ever again.

[Bigdaddydvo]

Apparently anti-catholicism is the only form of bigotry acceptable these days.

The Church admittedly has its sins, many of which are quite serious (including crusades, inquisition, and pedophilia). Which is why this most recent Pope went to such extensive lengths seeking repentence for them. Many continue to not understand the concept of a Church that is "divinely inspired" (which leads to spirtual truths), yet is a "human institution" (which explains the sins of the Church). If you're ever up to it I could go into extensive detail of how the Church ensures its spirtual truths are safeguarded in a fallible, human run institution.

The Church has Her sins, no doubt, but the contention that She has done more harm than good is ignorant, uninformed, and just plain laughable.

[elwoodblues]

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Apparently anti-catholicism is the only form of bigotry acceptable these days

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Woe is me....

I always thought that bigotry against white men was the only acceptable form. I'll have to update my notes.

[vulturesrow]

I could easily post a point by point answer to your bs but its clear to me that no useful dialogue can be hand when you are so blinded by your hate of the Church and Christianity in general.

So to sum up, I am not saying the Church has never done wrong or that the people in the Church have never done wrong. No one has or ever will assert such foolishness. The fact of these sins doesnt call the Church as an institution into doubt. Your contentions about the Inquisition and the Crusades, while they have some credibility, are easily answered by objective study of history and your claims about the Church's actions during WWII are flat wrong.

Im not sure what the genesis of your virulent anti-Catholicism/Christianity is but I hope in time you can overcome it. I'll say a prayer for you.