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#31
08-30-2005, 03:41 PM
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Re: I bet...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree. You posted a hand awhile back emphasizing the check-call flop, lead turn line which I like a lot in many situation. [/ QUOTE ] when is a good time to use that line? a monster? marginal made hand? draw? etc. [/ QUOTE ] yes, all of the above. i use for extracting value from a monster, semi-bluffing, and bluffing with nothing. It's one of those moves that cannot be used all of the time but if you have the right read on your opponent it can do well. 
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#32
08-30-2005, 03:41 PM
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Re: I bet...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree. You posted a hand awhile back emphasizing the check-call flop, lead turn line which I like a lot in many situation. [/ QUOTE ] i can't remember the last time i took that line. if you're playing against a fairly straightforward villain, when is a good time to use that line? a monster? marginal made hand? draw? etc. [/ QUOTE ] I used this line last night, early in the $34k when i flopped trips from the BB. There were 3 limpers and i checked in the BB with K5o. The flop came 255. I checked to a limper who bet the pot. I was the only one to call. The turn came a J. I led the turn for 3/4 the pot. Then led the river for the same. He called down with 66 i think. At the time i think this was the best way to extract the money. Now i believe it even more.
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#33
08-30-2005, 03:46 PM
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Re: I bet...
Like AJo in bb, someone raises, you call, flop Jxx, check-call, lead turn
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#34
08-30-2005, 03:48 PM
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Re: I bet...
Or an EP aggressive player raises and you call in the BB with xx. The flop is xxx. You check-call and lead the turn. Note: I'm not saying that all x's are equal, just that it is 100% read dependent and makes no difference what cards you have.
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#35
08-30-2005, 03:58 PM
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Re: I bet...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree. You posted a hand awhile back emphasizing the check-call flop, lead turn line which I like a lot in many situation. [/ QUOTE ] i can't remember the last time i took that line. if you're playing against a fairly straightforward villain, when is a good time to use that line? a monster? marginal made hand? draw? etc. [/ QUOTE ] Very generally, any time you want money to go in on the turn and expect him to check behind with hands that you beat but that he will call with. Or, when he is likely to check behind with outs to your marginal made hand. Almost always I make a smaller than pot size bet in this situation. Having check-called the flop rather than checkraising or betting out makes him less likely to give you credit for a stronger hand, so his range of hands that calls the turn is weaker than it would be with the other lines, which you like if you have a medium strength hand or a hand that you want to build a pot with, like a set. A set vs preflop raiser who may have TPGK or a good pocket pair (maybe JJ on a king high board) is a perfect example. A slightly different example is middle pair vs. a possible continuation bettor to fold out his overcards and potentially get a call from a pocket pair you beat if there is a draw out there that you could be betting. The more likely it is that he has overcards, the moire frequently you should semi-bluff a draw. You can also do this to price yourself in on a draw versus a weaker player who would bet more if checked to but won't raise a smaller bet. Not ridiculously smaller, like a minbet, but 1/2 pot or something,
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#37
08-30-2005, 04:02 PM
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Re: I bet...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Like AJo in bb, someone raises, you call, flop Jxx, check-call, lead turn [/ QUOTE ] why am i giving a free card on the flop instead of c/r'ing? [/ QUOTE ] Because if he has a hand like 88-TT, he only has two outs and check-call, bet could easily earn a call on the turn that you wouldn't get on the flop. That is, checkraise usually only gets action from hands that beat you. Check-call, bet induces action from some weaker hand. Also allows a continuation bettor to pickup a draw that you can force him to overpay for. But it all depends on the frequency with which you make these moves and the type of hands you make them with.
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#38
08-30-2005, 04:09 PM
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Re: I bet...
[ QUOTE ]
Or an EP aggressive player raises and you call in the BB with xx. The flop is xxx. You check-call and lead the turn. Note: I'm not saying that all x's are equal, [/ QUOTE ] I'm glad you clarified this, Lloyd. I can't even remember the last time I flopped 5 of a kind. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#39
08-30-2005, 04:28 PM
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Re: I bet...
[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad you clarified this, Lloyd. I can't even remember the last time I flopped 5 of a kind. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Hey, you know SOMEBODY would have asked!
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#40
08-30-2005, 08:33 PM
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Re: I bet...
Agreed 100%, I only use it when I'm getting short and have been playing tight. The setting has to be right: I have to be seen as weak tight, oppponent has to to be LAGgish. I think a lot of players will put you on a small pocket pair that's hit its set (hence the PF 'hesitation', the 'quick' check and the confident 'timely' c/r [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]). Like I say it's risky, but you can look to pick up 6-7 BBs with it. In my opinion it's far less risky than taking a coin flip, which is what you're going to have to do soon anyway.
[ QUOTE ] not in low buy-in online MTT [/ QUOTE ] True; you need to do it with 'smart' LAGs in the supers.
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