i was vilified for this call (Super Thurs - 11 left)

[Tosh]

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Great read, nice reasoning and it all worked ou perfectly for you. But I'm interested in how you would have felt if when he turned his cards over he had say QQ.


[/ QUOTE ]

You cannot judge whether it was a good or bad play regardless of what he turns over.

[Che]

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Are you able to separate your feelings from your intellect when you're wrong on plays like that?

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I have not achieved total lack of emotion (and I'm not sure I want to [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), but I do manage my emotions pretty well. Much better than average based on the chat I see from the people I bust. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But, being able to manage your emotions is important if you're going to make risky plays based on very specific reads. At times I am wrong and end up looking like an idiot.

For example, I called the river in a cash game the other night with an Ax that didn't touch the board because I thought my opponent was bluffing, and it turned out that he had quads - oops! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

However, I'm right more often than not so I don't let it get me down when:

a. I'm wrong, or
b. I'm right about the opponent's range but he just happens to have a hand at the top of the range

There's no point in developing the ability to make superior reads if you're not willing to pull the trigger based on those reads.

Later,
Che

[jwvdcw]

I disagree with the play. Perhaps its that I consider my strength to be a great shortstacked player, but I totally disagree when you say that '22K or 33K, it doesn't really matter because you're still probably going to finish around 9th'(I'm paraphrasing you here). I totally disagree. You have 8xBB....thats more than enough to WIN THE TOURNEY. A tourney is different than a cash game. In a tourney, I will, always avoid close to 50/50 situations for a lot of my chips. Let someone else make this call and knock this guy out. Why should you risk so much doing it? I think there is great EV in sitting by and doing nothing sometimes while others get eliminated. I don't really care about the math aspect because, as I said, getting slightly better than 50% is not important to me in a tourney where I need to protect my chips at all costs. I'd rather be the aggressive one and win my chips by outplaying my opponents than hoping that hes bluffing and hoping for good cards on a 50/50 or worse. JMHO.

[Che]

jwvdcw-

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather be the aggressive one and win my chips by outplaying my opponents

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FWIW calling an all-in is obviously passive rather than aggressive, but calling 1/3 of your chips against all of your opponent's chips with a 10% edge IS outplaying your opponent. (Note: I'm talking edge against his range of hands, not the specific hand he had. If my read is wrong, my edge is obviously less, but that's poker.)

However, arguing that folding and being aggressive later will get you an edge better than 10% is certainly a legitimate argument for folding, but you don't always get a better opportunity before you blind away so there's risk either way. If you had seen the cards I got at the final table, you would know what I mean by "you don't always get a better opportunity." [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

BTW I got as high as fifth chip count with eight left, but ended up blinding down to last with seven left and eventually made another borderline BB call against a SB push (and lost). $3492 for seventh.

Later,
Che

[thylacine]

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... I noticed that his play was indeed very solid overall, including a clear understanding of the gap concept, bubble issues, and whatnot....

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What is the `gap concept'?

[Che]

See p.27 in Tournament Poker for Advanced Players for the full explanation. If you haven't read that chapter, you need to. Several times.

In short, the gap concept is the idea that you need a stronger hand to enter a pot than to open a pot. Thus, there is a "gap" between open-raise requirements and calling/re-raising requirements.

Simple hypothetical example: Your opponent open-raises. You know that this opponent will *only* do this with AA-TT, nothing else (even AK). What can you call with?

If there is dead money in the pot, you can call with QQ. Why not JJ? JJ loses to AA/KK/QQ while only beating TT. Thus, JJ is a loser against his range of hands.

In other words, your hand must be above average relative to the opponents range of hands (or at least close enough to average that the dead money will compensate you for the deficit) if you are going to have a positive expectation on your call.

In the example above the "gap" is JJ and TT. Even though your opponent can profitably open with JJ and TT, you cannot profitably call with them.

But, you should still read the full explanation in TPFAP. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Later,
Che

[thylacine]

Thanks. I guess I vaguely knew that. Coincidentally I ordered that book last week.