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#21
06-14-2004, 12:06 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 'don't care how slim they're drawing, I don't want four players drawing slim against my best hand' Let me reword, you don't want players incorrectly putting in money against you? [/ QUOTE ] Correct. Sometimes, you don't want four players "incorrectly putting money in against you," because collectively, they might be a favorite. Yes, you're getting the best of it against each of them. You're just an underdog against ALL of them sometimes. [/ QUOTE ] This was discussed in another thread a month or so back. Basically, when you have 2 or more opponents and you have the best hand, a not uncommon situation arises where even if one of your opponents is drawing to incorrect odds, you'd still rather him fold, because the extra EV from his incorrect call is mostly going to your other opponent. Basically this happens when one of your opponents is drawing to the nuts (or close to it). 
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#23
06-14-2004, 12:51 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
Louie L.. posted a thread about this a while ago showing why you are clearly wrong.
On 2nd thoughts, i think you are referring to Players A - D all have 15% edges and you have a 60% edge (assume a 5BB pot for ease) yet you are annoyed they are all collectively a favourite against you!? So you want them to fold? Anyhow, this one is wrong too, but if this isn't what you are talking about the above paragraph is.
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#24
06-14-2004, 12:56 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
By uncommon you mean extremely rare. The thread was to find a hand that isn't favourite heads up but has more pot equity against a made hand when multiway. It's V rare and has no place in this hand.
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#25
06-14-2004, 01:24 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
perhaps for people who simply have to book winning sessions, but with a small pot on this crappy board with people checking twice i don't have any fear of it.
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#26
06-14-2004, 08:52 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
Louie L.. posted a thread about this a while ago showing why you are clearly wrong. On 2nd thoughts, i think you are referring to Players A - D all have 15% edges and you have a 60% edge (assume a 5BB pot for ease) yet you are annoyed they are all collectively a favourite against you!? So you want them to fold? Anyhow, this one is wrong too, but if this isn't what you are talking about the above paragraph is. [/ QUOTE ] I would say that with TPTK, I would always prefer to play 2 players for two bets each than four players for one bet each. This would be a win-win situation--increasing your chances of winning the POT, while not costing yourself any BETS. Right?
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#27
06-14-2004, 10:18 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
Yes. but that's not what you said at first.
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#28
06-14-2004, 10:30 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
What would you do in this situation. I got this from the Bob Ciaffone and Jim Brier Middle Limit hold'em book. pg. 194 Problem 15 A $10 - $20 game. After two early players limp, you raise with AhKs in middle position. The button, big blind, and limpers call. There is $105 in the pot and five players. The flop comes: 8h 7d 4s, leaving you with overcards. Everyone checks. The turn is the Kd, giving you top pair, top kicker. The big blind checks. The first early limper checks. The next early limper bets. What would you do and why? [/ QUOTE ] this almost seems like a trick question...can't wait to see what others said...but i'll bite: i can't think of a reason NOT to raise. raise would certainly be the play i'd think is right for many reasons: 1) you almost certainly have the best hand in a draw laden board. so get more money in. 2) your hand is vulnerable so you need to limit the field and make worse hands pay to see the river card. 3) an extension of #2 is you need to give draws fewer odds (or less odds...thats a good one for all you english majors...b/c odds are both countable and abstract- i.e. lower odds ratio vs. fewer odds) to hit and FTOP considerations etc. if this is a trick question i guess i failed but i can't see how not to raise. -Barron
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#29
06-14-2004, 10:37 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
do you want 86/76 etc... calling or folding? he/she has a 5, a 6, an 8 or {6,7,8} as outs. thats 9 outs. if you call there's 145 minus rake giving 7.5:1 on the call.
if you raise 86 gets 165:40 or 4.25:1...in both cases the 86 is correct to call if the 86 knew what you had...but do you really want to give that cheap river card to a 9 outer? so you can both play right if you raise and the 86 calls or you can gain more if the 86 folds when it could have correctly called... ps- if you say (and will be correct to) that there is no 8 out b/c flop got checked through then fine, change the 8 to another pair card that has 9 outs 2 of one pair 3 of another and 4 for the straight. -Barron
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#30
06-14-2004, 11:19 AM
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Re: Middle Limit Hold\'em
[ QUOTE ]
if you say (and will be correct to) that there is no 8 out b/c flop got checked through then fine, change the 8 to another pair card that has 9 outs 2 of one pair 3 of another and 4 for the straight. [/ QUOTE ] if i am correct to say that there isn't a pair with an 8, how can i say there isn't a pair with a 7? i would not describe this board as "draw-laden", the pot is small, and i don't place TWO cards in my opponents hands in order to justify knocking them out.
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