Where good players have the edge in a Sit and Go.

[Jason Strasser]

Indeed. But again, answer this question:

What percentage of hands that will raise in this spot be able to call my all in under the cirumstances? My guess is around 10%, maybe less.

[Harry]

And now that I and every 2+2ers know you do pull moves like this, there will be more calls coming. There aren't that many "regulars" who play at 200. The move itself is questionable, but bragging at 2+2 forum certainly is not the smart thing to do.

> this works great untill the button shows up with KK AA etc

[Prickly Pete]

I agree that this move has to be considered and will most often work. Unfortunately, as you probably know, most of the $200 players won't give the opportunity by raising to 800. They'll just go allin.

[sabre170]

As you said in another answer, "Look at it from his point-of-view." But let's do so preflop.

On the bubble, there are two big stacks and two short stacks. I, the button, have one of the big stacks. Shall I raise to try to steal the blinds, or shall I fold into the money? If I have a monster, shall I trap?

I think a raise in this situation should often mean a hand that can withstand your all-in reraise.

I don't dispute that this play often works for you.

Sabre170

[Jason Strasser]

Exactly. A min raise sometime says to me "big hand, watch out". But I feel like a large amount of the time, especially when the blinds are big in a sit and go, and the bubble is upon us, a min raise represents a small commitment. The raiser is thinking, "there is a very good chances my raise steals the blinds, and I can fold to a reraise and have a nice stack."

A lot of $200 sng players will be smart and push here, and fully knowing that all hands except the very best will fold.

And with regards to letting this secret out, I find it laughable. This is a strategy discussion, and I offered up a point of view of mine for discussion. If Harry wants to criticize me for:

1) telling 2+2ers about my move who,

2) in turn begin to start using it in huge numbers on party poker, leading to

3) more loose calls in situations like this...

Then I laugh. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jason Strasser]

Sabre,

What hands do you call my raise with?

[Harry]

You will more likely be crying rather than laughing when your 65s get called by JTs - exactly the kind of hand that would've brought the 2xBB raise and fold to your all-in before..

1) telling 2+2ers about my move who,

2) in turn begin to start using it in huge numbers on party poker, leading to

3) more loose calls in situations like this...

Then I laugh

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
And now that I and every 2+2ers know you do pull moves like this, there will be more calls coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome aboard. The whole point of this forum is to discuss "moves like this". You can say the same thing about every piece of strategy advice that is posted on every board here.


[ QUOTE ]
The move itself is questionable, but bragging at 2+2 forum certainly is not the smart thing to do.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this reply. I think he tries to make a point here, by giving a specific move as an example. Basically, these kinds of moves (playing your opponents, very aggressively, regardless of your cards, in the right spot with the exact timing), is indeed, IMO, what makes the difference between good-avarage players and great ones.

However, this move, as posted, can not be completely analyzed here, since much of its EV is coming from Jason's read of the button (and the BB, for some extent), the previous dynamics of the game, and the over-all feel. Still, it is no doubt a +$EV move, IMO. Getting ITM and later on to HU, with as much as chips as possible, is as important as being good SH or HU players. The advantage of a big stack in late stages is something you gain yourself and is extremely useful (see Fossilman in WSOP for example), as opposed to the original stack you get.

It is a sin not to use it.

[Jason Strasser]

Harry,

Reread my initial post. Then I have a challenge for you.

Find one 2+2 player who calls with JTs in this spot.

Then you win!

[Harry]

That's exactly my point. Now that 2+2ers know you pull this move, when that 2+2er with JTs who would've folded before will now call someone from durham's all in bluff. In turn will bring your EV down.

>>
Harry,

Reread my initial post. Then I have a challenge for you.

Find one 2+2 player who calls with JTs in this spot.

Then you win!