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#21
04-20-2004, 08:48 PM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] obviously there are situations where AK can lose to other Ax hands. my point is that if ignoring straights, A5 and A4 do equally well against AK, as do all other Ax hands. if ignoring straights, A2 has just as much chance of beating AK as AQ does. if im wrong, let me know why. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Wow... heh.. why don't you read the paragraph that YOU quoted, the one starting with "assume you have... " and tell us which part you don't understand? [/ QUOTE ] i cant find any paragraph that starts with "assume you have.." 
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#22
04-22-2004, 12:13 AM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
"i cant find any paragraph that starts with "assume you have.." "
"Assume you have AQ. AK will still win on a board of AKKQ. Now if you have AJ AK will win on a board of AKKJ and AQQJ. For AT the boards become AKKT, AQQT, and AJJT. And so forth. The lower x is the (slightly) more boards possible where you hit x but still lose. Which is why (getting back to the original) A5 is slightly better than A4 - even if you ignore straights." I suppose I started this by giving an example where AK and Ax tie when I meant to give a win, but fortunately the good people here have corrected my mistake (without placing blame, too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ), Craig
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#23
04-22-2004, 12:29 PM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
[ QUOTE ]
"i cant find any paragraph that starts with "assume you have.." " "Assume you have AQ. AK will still win on a board of AKKQ. Now if you have AJ AK will win on a board of AKKJ and AQQJ. For AT the boards become AKKT, AQQT, and AJJT. And so forth. The lower x is the (slightly) more boards possible where you hit x but still lose. Which is why (getting back to the original) A5 is slightly better than A4 - even if you ignore straights." I suppose I started this by giving an example where AK and Ax tie when I meant to give a win, but fortunately the good people here have corrected my mistake (without placing blame, too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ), Craig [/ QUOTE ] i didnt quote that one
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#24
04-22-2004, 01:58 PM
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Heart Flush?
There has to be something wrong with your stated post. You list your opponent as having Ac 5h then say he flopped a heart flush. Did you mean he flopped a flush draw? Did he really have Ah 5h? Or did he get his flush on the turn or the river?
I think this would change the discussion here if his cards were suited.
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#25
04-22-2004, 07:11 PM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
Here is your post:
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Obviously you missed it as well becasue Bozeman gave a perfectly good example of when the kicker makes a difference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- maybe im confused, so please give me an example of when AK can be outkicked by any Ax hand headsup when x doesnt show up on board. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're confused. Nobodys saying that Ax will outkick AK. Just the opposite. AK will beat Ax, even if Ax hits x at times. The lower x is the slightly more likely this is to happen. Assume you have AQ. AK will still win on a board of AKKQ. Now if you have AJ AK will win on a board of AKKJ and AQQJ. For AT the boards become AKKT, AQQT, and AJJT. And so forth. The lower x is the (slightly) more boards possible where you hit x but still lose. Which is why (getting back to the original) A5 is slightly better than A4 - even if you ignore straights. (Sleep is a wonderful thing) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- obviously there are situations where AK can lose to other Ax hands. my point is that if ignoring straights, A5 and A4 do equally well against AK, as do all other Ax hands. if ignoring straights, A2 has just as much chance of beating AK as AQ does. if im wrong, let me know why.
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#26
04-23-2004, 09:54 AM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
[ QUOTE ]
Here is your post: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Obviously you missed it as well becasue Bozeman gave a perfectly good example of when the kicker makes a difference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- maybe im confused, so please give me an example of when AK can be outkicked by any Ax hand headsup when x doesnt show up on board. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're confused. Nobodys saying that Ax will outkick AK. Just the opposite. AK will beat Ax, even if Ax hits x at times. The lower x is the slightly more likely this is to happen. Assume you have AQ. AK will still win on a board of AKKQ. Now if you have AJ AK will win on a board of AKKJ and AQQJ. For AT the boards become AKKT, AQQT, and AJJT. And so forth. The lower x is the (slightly) more boards possible where you hit x but still lose. Which is why (getting back to the original) A5 is slightly better than A4 - even if you ignore straights. (Sleep is a wonderful thing) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- obviously there are situations where AK can lose to other Ax hands. my point is that if ignoring straights, A5 and A4 do equally well against AK, as do all other Ax hands. if ignoring straights, A2 has just as much chance of beating AK as AQ does. if im wrong, let me know why. [/ QUOTE ] i didnt quote the "assume you have.." paragraph
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#28
04-23-2004, 01:13 PM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
[ QUOTE ]
Continue to deny the indisputable facts if you wish: #641461 - 04/20/04 10:31 AM by mostsmooth [/ QUOTE ] i didnt deny any facts
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#29
04-23-2004, 07:32 PM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Continue to deny the indisputable facts if you wish: #641461 - 04/20/04 10:31 AM by mostsmooth [/ QUOTE ] i didnt deny any facts [/ QUOTE ] You denied quoting something that you did quote, among other things. You quoted an explanation for why A5 does better against A4 even with no straights possible. Maybe you didn't recognize it as a separate paragraph. Here is data from twodimes with all 6s and 3s removed from the deck, and 4 different suits: http://twodimes.net/h/?z=282332 pokenum -h as kh - ad 5c / 3s 3h 3d 3c 6s 6h 6d 6c Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 464394 70.58 156119 23.73 37495 5.70 0.734 A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 156119 23.73 464394 70.58 37495 5.70 0.266 http://twodimes.net/h/?z=282333 pokenum -h as kh - ad 4c / 3s 3h 3d 3c 6s 6h 6d 6c Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 465381 70.73 154384 23.46 38243 5.81 0.736 A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 154384 23.46 465381 70.73 38243 5.81 0.264 The difference comes from counterfeited pairs. This is counterintuitive to many people, as you can see in showdowns when people have bet hard with TPnK rather than the two-pair they had on the flop (after tbe board pairs above their bottom pair). There is no shame in getting this wrong at first. However, you should take the time to figure out why you are wrong, and admit it.
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#30
04-23-2004, 07:45 PM
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Re: AK vs A5 anomaly?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Continue to deny the indisputable facts if you wish: #641461 - 04/20/04 10:31 AM by mostsmooth [/ QUOTE ] i didnt deny any facts [/ QUOTE ] You denied quoting something that you did quote, among other things. You quoted an explanation for why A5 does better against A4 even with no straights possible. Maybe you didn't recognize it as a separate paragraph. Here is data from twodimes with all 6s and 3s removed from the deck, and 4 different suits: http://twodimes.net/h/?z=282332 pokenum -h as kh - ad 5c / 3s 3h 3d 3c 6s 6h 6d 6c Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 464394 70.58 156119 23.73 37495 5.70 0.734 A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 156119 23.73 464394 70.58 37495 5.70 0.266 http://twodimes.net/h/?z=282333 pokenum -h as kh - ad 4c / 3s 3h 3d 3c 6s 6h 6d 6c Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 465381 70.73 154384 23.46 38243 5.81 0.736 A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 154384 23.46 465381 70.73 38243 5.81 0.264 The difference comes from counterfeited pairs. This is counterintuitive to many people, as you can see in showdowns when people have bet hard with TPnK rather than the two-pair they had on the flop (after tbe board pairs above their bottom pair). There is no shame in getting this wrong at first. However, you should take the time to figure out why you are wrong, and admit it. [/ QUOTE ] i admit nothing!
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