Lets talk more about poker for a living

[jwvdcw]

Al, I respect your opinions a lot, but I question why you are so adamently against players becoming pros. It seems to me like you are always highlighting the negative aspects, which I will admit there are a lot of them, while paying no mind whatsoever to the numerous positive aspects of it such as more time to spend with your family, freedom, etc.

Sorry if this is too personal....but did you or someone you know well have a very bad experience playing as a pro/

[Z-Dan]

I think your post is right on the money for alot of us. I have a great job that pays a good salary...certainly much more than I could make playing full-time. Add in the benefits and the pension in 9 more years and you can see why I can't quit. But I absolutely love playing on the internet 3-5 hours in the evenings and on weekends!! When I add my winnings onto my salary, it comes to about a $10 an hour raise!! What a great P/T job!!!

[CrisBrown]

Hi jw,

I can't speak for Al, so I'll speak for myself.

As I've said, I play poker as a 2nd job. On my good months, I net about $2000, which is a great second job to me. So far this month, I'm up about $500 ... but it was $1000 just this morning. I think that, by and large, I played pretty well today, with a couple of miscues in the mix. Still, what with long-odds draws falling all over my opponents all day, I took a significant emotional knock. By the end of the day, I felt as if I were on auto-lose mode. In my last tourney of the day (a $215 SNG which took more than an hour to fill), I was gone in 15 minutes when KK lost to AK, QQ lost to AJo, and ATs caught nothing vs. 44. (I guess playing Ace-high only works for other people vs. my pocket pairs.)

These kinds of days are not hugely unusual for a poker player. In fact, they're more common than the I-could-win-with-any-two-cards days that feel so wonderful. I'll take a day or two off to get rid of the negative emotions, then I'll win that $500 back ... and with interest. That's not denial. It's knowing what I'm capable of, and resolving to do it.

But I hate losing -- more than I hate losing money, I hate LOSING, period -- and a day like today takes a lot out of me, emotionally. If this were my sole source of income, I think it would be even more devastating. I'm glad to have my writing career as a stabilizing influence on my emotions when a crappy poker day happens, just as I'm glad to have poker as a stabilizing influence when writing feels like pulling hens' teeth.

Cris

[TheArtist]

If you play poker 40 hours a week and work 40 hours a week, where do you find time to do other things? I know my friend, who has a full time job, play poker about 40 hours a week, go to school full time, have girlfriend(s), and party with us like every weekend. And that's a life! But do you think everyone is born with the capablities to do all this?

For me personally, I like to work 30 to 35 hours a week max, and dedicate my other time to the fun things in life. And when I work, I like to have fun too, and poker is perfect for that.

TheArtist

[TheArtist]

What are you going to do when you become like some players who makes 3 time more than what you are making at your job? Would still work at your job?

TheArtist

[Al Schoonmaker]

Your question is quite legitimate. I have never attempted to play as a pro, nor will I ever do so. However, MANY of my friends have tried it, and most have had extremely unpleasant experiences.
Of course, some of my pro friends love it, but they are almost entirely people who have some other source of income and financial security such as a pension or medical benefits.
The number of pros who make it for more than a few years without any other source of income or security is negligible. I know of at least four winners of the 10K buy-in at the WSOP who either ended up broke or had to play tiny stakes to survive AFTER they had won the title. If the best players in the world can't make a long term successful career of poker, what chance does the merely good player have?
Regards,
Al

[jwvdcw]

I really have enjoyed reading this thread, as I am in a spot where I'm deciding upon my future. Allow me to explain my situation a little more in detail and then perhaps you all could commment.

I'm the son of a former poker pro. I have seen first hand the ups and downs, the drug habbits, all your friends are pretty sleezy and non-social guys-i'm not saying this about all poker players, but a lot of guys that play all the time aren't the greatest people in the world imo-, the lack of a social life outside the poker room, and so on and so on.

I am also a college student getting ready to graduate in 3 months. 8 months ago, I decided to give online poker a try. I slowly built my bankroll and have faired extremely well. If I play for one year straight, I'm on track to earn close to 6 figures/year....and thats doing it part time while I'm in school.

Now, I realize about the ups and downs...I've lost 3000 dollars in one day before and 10000 dollars in 2 weeks before. I understand the enormous ups and downs of it, and I think that as long as I always have a bankroll large enough to handle any swings at the limits I'm playing at that I'll be able to handle it...perhaps, you say, I havn't truly seen a terrible 3 months, and you'd be right. Furthermore, I am open to the possibility that I might have been getting rather lucky over the past few months and that I shouldn't expect it to continue at this rate.

Nevertheless, I don't have tons of options coming out of college. I'm a pretty average student with average grades and credentials. I would most certainly have to starting out making 40000 dollars or less per year and working my way up, which is not that attractive to me after making this kind of money sitting in front of my computer for the past few months.

Furthermore, it really is something that I love to do. I love to read about it and constantly work on my game. I don't envision it ever becoming old for me. In short, this is something that I'd really love to be able to do full time while making good money. I want to do it...but I'm not sure if its the smartest decision.

Any thoughts and comments are appriciated.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Cris is talking about a principle that virtually every investment advisor recommends: diversification. In fact, the principle has been around for centuries and is the basis of folk sayings such as, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
Psychologists also recommend diversification of non-financial investments such as our emotions. If too much of your self is tied up in only one or two "investments," you're vulnerable. If poker becomes too important to you, a relatively small losing streak can have huge financial and emotional effects. If you've got more than one source of income, and more than one source of the way you feel about yourself, the swings will be much more manageable.
Regards,
Al

[charlie_t_jr]

[ QUOTE ]

What are you going to do when you become like some players who makes 3 time more than what you are making at your job? Would still work at your job?

TheArtist

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I can't wait 'til I'm faced with that problem!

Right now I work full time and a part time job, and play online about 15-20hrs online per week. I'm struggling with the descion to just give up my part time job!

I have little over 20K hands in PT, and about 10K more before PT, and my win rate shows I could easily give up my part time job, but I guess I'm just not ready to "gamble" yet...though I know I would be 10 times happier, if poker replaced my part time job.

One thing I do like about the poker income...its like having what some people used to say...I've got FU money...

[Warren Whitmore]

Weather its Warren Buffet with "The intelligent investor" or Mason Malmuth with "Gambling theory and other topics" separating the wheat from the chaff is what its all about.