A3 Suited on Botton...Opinions needed

[JTG51]

You are going to have to collect in the neighborhood of 2.5 bb, just to break even on the preflop call, assuming the blinds do not raise.

Huh? I don't understand that line of thought at all. The preflop call cost you one small bet. You are going to have to collect one small bet post flop to break even.

[Jezebel]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe you are about a 7.5-1 dog to flop a four flush. You conceivably are going to collect 2 sb from the limpers and 1.5 (maybe 2 sb) from the blinds for a total of 3.5 sb preflop. You really need 7.5 sb to justify your preflop call, so you will need to collect roughly 2 bb post flop just to break even long term on this play. Anything you collect over 2 bb can be considered long term profit. Anything less than 2 bb can be considered a long term loss.

[Mike Gallo]

CPA,

I like the flop call, I do not like the turn raise, the river played itself.

In a loose passive game I will play Ax suited from anywhere. I will not go to war if I hit the Ace however. It all depends.

Those who condemned him for playing A3 suited need to reevaluate their own game. Ax suited in a loose passive game should prove a profitable hand.

Experienced players should not have such a rigid list of starting hands. As a player becomes more educated,and gains more experience at the tables that player should know what starting hands and in what position that player can play for a profit.

[Ed Miller]

I didn't read all of the posts because there were too many, but I read enough to realize that much of the advice in this thread is bad. Thus, I felt the need to weigh in.

Preflop: Throwing this hand away is throwing money away. I wouldn't even consider folding. Limping is generally the best play and the one I'd do over 80% of the time in this spot.

Flop: I'd fold. You are getting 6-1 on a call. You likely do not have the best hand (yes, the bettor could have a straight draw, but a queen or ten is much more likely... and you aren't really any kind of favorite over a straight draw anyway... a straight draw has fourteen outs twice against you), and the pot was unraised before the flop. You don't have a backdoor flush opportunity, and there are three players left to act behind you who may have checked a strong hand, or at least who might call (perhaps a hand like K9). You need to fold here. If the pot had been raised before the flop, it would be a different story entirely.

[bernie]

im on my way down the thread. from your post i agree
folding in this spot preflop is terrible.

flop. id fold, BUT IF i was going to the turn, i wouldnt call. id raise. so in that respect, the poster did fine. i'm not calling the flop.

cheers

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[bernie]

if anyone is playing Axs on the button only for a flush draw, they dont know the dynamics of this hand. it is much more valuable than just for the draw. maybe their postflop play needs work to minimize the losses the times when someone may have you outkicked over when someone else will pay much more playing that hand. just a thought.

as ridiculous as the 64s being better than A3s, remember 64s, flopping a 6 you can be stuck also making reasons to try and spike 2 pair. you are pretty much only playing for the flopped draw. note draw isnt a made hand. and you could pay quite a bit, depending on the players, for that draw.

in 4 way pots, your A will hold up when it pairs quite often.

anyways, the above was well covered already by major and clark. read their responses again, and quit valuing 64s over A3s. it's obvious which one is better. in fact with only 2 limpers, id generally want more limpers for my 64s. A3s, depending on the limpers, you sometimes can raise with it in this spot.

cya

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