Debtable one..

[Guy McSucker]

As others said, I just meant that all his bets were small compared to pot-size: under a third of the pot. Considering he made a pot-raise preflop, these bets are very small.

Guy.

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]

This is the battle cry of passive players everywhere!! Against players who bluff far too often, it is the correct strategy. However, against everybody else, you want to make a raise on the flop. If he does have overcards, then you want to make sure he is making a mistake to draw at them. Remember, he has 6 outs to beat you, you don't want to give him infinite odds to draw at them.




[/ QUOTE ]

Two bets on the flop and the turn are large -EV than if i raise this so he can call. Against a semi-good player if i don't give those players the odds they'll just fold. No -EV for me.

[1800GAMBLER]

Raising the turn does seem the best play. Guess i wasn't confident enough in my read.

[tewall]

He's getting infinite odds from the point of reference of when JayP is to act. At this point there is X in the pot, and JayP can fold, call or raise. If he calls he is giving the other guy infinte odds.

If he never raises here, then it's hard to see how betting with overcards could ever be a mistake. Some of the time the bet till pick up the pot, and some of the rest of the time he'll hit his card on the turn. To charge him for the draw, JayP must raise (this doesn't of itself mean raising is the best play, but just explaining Zag's logic).

[tewall]

I think all your points are good.

Another way suited connectors can hit is to flop a pair and draw at the same time. This makes them about even money a lot of the time against a better pair, so is obviously a hand that can be played strongly, and not a flop that's that hard to hit.

I think the key to suited connectors, against decent opposition, is the combined equity of winning pots by aggressive betting and they're hitting their draw. If you play them some of the time (in position), I believe they have a good chance of being profitable. If you play them all of the time it will be too easy for observant opponents to be putting you on draws when you are aggressive.

[nicky g]

[Ignatius]

If he has over cards he has just made a -EV
.
If a 1/4 pot bet is all it takes to scare a better hand into calling and give him a cheap look at the turn, then his play actually makes some sense. But ultimately it doesn't matter a bit if his play is +EV or not. What matters is if your EV is higher by calling or raising.
.
if i come over the top on that board he's probably done with his hand.
.
What's wrong with winning right there? By calling, you just give away a part of the $52 pot and set yourself up for negative implied odds. You don't realize that you have been extremely lucky that
.
- he actually had overcards
- an undercard to your pair turned
- he didn't bet big on turn
- an undercard to your pair rivered
- he checked on the river
.
How would you have liked your hand if a queen turned and/or he makes it $40 (still less than 2/3 pot)?

[1800GAMBLER]

yardy yardy yarder.

[ QUOTE ]


If a 1/4 pot bet is all it takes to scare a better hand into calling and give him a cheap look at the turn, then his play actually makes some sense. But ultimately it doesn't matter a bit if his play is +EV or not.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. It. Does. Matter. Because. If. He. Checked. And. I. Bet. He. Would. Fold. If. It. Was. -EV.

[ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with winning right there? By calling, you just give away a part of the $52 pot and set yourself up for negative implied odds. You don't realize that you have been extremely lucky that



[/ QUOTE ]

I just gave away 1/4 of $52 by letting him carry on. Which is! $13! He just made a $20 bet on the turn! OH! If i let him carry on i then give him back 1/8th of $78. ~$10.

Hence, by your strange logic, my play is justifed giving him back that 1/4 of the pot due to the size of the turn bet.

[ QUOTE ]

an undercard to your pair turned
an undercard to your pair river
an undercard to your pair turned
an undercard to your pair river
an undercard to your pair turned
an undercard to your pair river
ETC

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets list the number of overcards (just to make sure your post doesn't seem baised) that i fear and the actual number of overcards:

9
T
J
Q
K
A

I fear 50/50. That's given this player too much credit, assuming he would actually have some balls and make a good sized bet at the queen/king, which we have already saw he is incapable of doing.

[1800GAMBLER]

Sidenote, just to discredit every line:

[ QUOTE ]
What matters is if your EV is higher by calling or raising.


[/ QUOTE ]

1. I don't know how my EV is higher than by calling or raising when you are comparing this play to my actual play since i did call. Of course calling is more EV than folding when i have the best hand.


2. As soon above, my EV is not higher by raising if he folds, which is the logic you selected bad about my play.

[1800GAMBLER]

edit: I give him 1/8th back by letting him see the turn. Not 1/4th.