official israeli position on palestine problem - Page 3

MMMMMM · #21 08-01-2003, 01:35 AM

As I've posted before, I don't save archives of evidence for discussions such as these. I read enough sources to form a somewhat knowledgeable opinion, then I generally move on. I can tell you however that I did read, within the last year, an article discussing such teachings in a significant percentage of Palestinian schools. And the percentage of Palestinians who sympathize with suicide bombings (and with Hamas' views) is higher yet still. Also nicky haven't you heard on the news reports etc.---suicide bombing and the glorification of it are by now integral parts of Palestinian culture. Isn't this obvious anyway??

Lots of societies have been under severe oppression throughout recent history but how many of those have developed a culture of suicide-bomber killing of innocents?

MMMMMM · #22 08-01-2003, 01:42 AM

Indeed. And neither were you aware that I have never advocated killing Palestinians per se; I only advocate killing terrorists.

It appears you are becoming too hotheaded to think clearly at this point. May you preserve your equanimity better at the poker tables than you do on these forums.

MMMMMM · #23 08-01-2003, 01:51 AM

Well, I don't see why the Palestinians can't accept living side by side with Israel. If they get a decent offer and don't take it they will be acting in an irredeemably stupid manner. Only an fool would throw away half a loaf because he can't get a full loaf, and starve in the process.

The Jews have a claim to that land too, you know. So let the Jews and the Arabs (Palestinians) split it already and be done with it.

I'm definitely not a neo-nazi racial supremacist. In fact I'm not a racist at all. But I am pretty adept at recognizing irrationality and inferior culture.

Chris Alger · #24 08-01-2003, 03:30 AM

I did not say that Israel is "occupying" Palestine but that it conquered Palestine (as defined by most Zionists before 1947) through violence. That is simply a fact of history. Your suggestion that Palestians reject accomodation with Israel indicates that history is something with which you have no interest.

Israel has no intention of "ceding" land to become an "independent state" but creating the world's largest outdoor prison. If by "reasonable security measures" you mean Sharon's wall then note that this amounts to the forcible seizure of 20% of the West Bank, including 80% of its fertile land and much of its water.

I did not compare the occupation to the Holocaust in general, Ronnie Kasrils (who is Jewish) compared it to German army tactics in the Warsaw ghetto. He was probably inspired by Israeli general Shaul Mofaz, now Israel's defense minister, who told the Israeli press that, when preparing for Jenin, Israel had "analyze[d] and internalize[d] the lessons of earlier battles -- even, however shocking it may sound, even how the German army fought in the Warsaw ghetto." (Ha'aretz, 25 January 2002 link). The anology is apt and hardly likely to escape actual survivors of the Warsaw ghetto, such as self-described "Israeli patriot" Alex Herschaft, who wrote to the Washington Post that "After the war ended, we all said in unison, 'Never again!' And here it is we, the Jews, who are doing it to the Arabs."

I submit that your suggestion that we wait until Israel "starts setting up concentraton camps for the purpose of committing genocide," or until it is too late, before discussing Israel's crimes for what they are, is far more reflective of a Nazi mentality than Kasrils' eloquent plea for justice.

Chris Alger · #25 08-01-2003, 03:39 AM

The Palestinians "living side-by-side" with Israel is exactly what most of the Arab world has been trying to accomplish since the late 1970's; it has been the official position of the PLO since the Algiers conference in 1988. It isn't the Palestinians that reject accomodation, but the Israelis and their American donors. Israel has been fighting the notion of an independent Palestine next door to it for more than 50 years. Thanks to the likes of Bush, it still isn't even on the table.

MMMMMM · #26 08-01-2003, 03:52 AM

Well, Hamas and their ilk are irrevocably opposed to the concept. I'm not sure about Bush and others' positions on the matter.

nicky g · #27 08-01-2003, 05:45 AM

Many others have also developed a culture of terrorist bombings eg the IRA.

brad · #28 08-01-2003, 06:52 AM

'but how many of those have developed a culture of suicide-bomber killing of innocents? ''

israel does but w/o suicide.

brad · #29 08-01-2003, 06:56 AM

hamas was founded (ie, bankrolled by mossad) as a counterbalance to plo.

look it up.

Boris · #30 08-01-2003, 12:17 PM

C'mon M, just admit it. you know you want those pesky Palestinians exterminated. Go ahead Bro. don't worry about being PC or anything. Just let your true feelings come out.