72s is marginal at best - Page 3

#21 12-16-2005, 06:05 PM

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Yes, I always worry someone has a higher flush draw, or someone always has a bigger set, etc.

Don't be weak tight, hero's hand my look bad, but on the turn, it's got mucho equity.

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Do you often, if ever, devalue your flush outs if you are not drawing to the nuts? This is a 4-handed pot, meaning less suited trash is out and about than if the pot were 6- or 7-handed.

TheHip41 · #22 12-16-2005, 06:22 PM

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Yes, I always worry someone has a higher flush draw, or someone always has a bigger set, etc.

Don't be weak tight, hero's hand my look bad, but on the turn, it's got mucho equity.

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Do you often, if ever, devalue your flush outs if you are not drawing to the nuts? This is a 4-handed pot, meaning less suited trash is out and about than if the pot were 6- or 7-handed.

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Not really, I don't worry about flush over flush, because it doesn't happen that often. Do you worry when you limp with 44 after 5 limpers what will happen if you flop an underset?

Yes, there was some action on the flop, but that doesn't mean someone has a higher flush. If you river a flush, and you bet, and a new player raises, then it's call down time. Poker happens, and if someon has a bigger flush, so be it.

pudley4 · #23 12-16-2005, 07:29 PM

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Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 folds, CO bets, Hero folds

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Is this a hand with a question? Or is it an instructional hand for newer players? Either way, it's played perfectly.

#24 12-16-2005, 07:31 PM

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Is this a hand with a question? Or is it an instructional hand for newer players? Either way, it's played perfectly.

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Explain my preflop play, please?

Harv72b · #25 12-16-2005, 08:03 PM

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My point is that the implied odds for calling one small bet and then an additional small bet are identical; however, to call one small bet and pay twice that when it comes back to you is different.

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The implied odds change greatly when there is a raise behind you, because it is far more likely that you will get action postflop than if it had been an unraised pot. To give an example:

Same hand, you complete, BB checks. Flop comes K72r. You lead out for value, to protect your vulnerable bottom two pair, and because you can't expect anyone else to bet it, and...everyone folds.

Same hand, with BB raising behind you. The pot is now twice as big, meaning that your opponents will be more likely to stay in with weaker hands/draws (they are getting better pot odds postflop). Same K72r flop, you check, BB bets as expected, to be fair we'll say all the limpers fold again (I think it's more likely someone with 55 calls after the raise, but we'll keep it simple), you check/raise, BB 3-bets with his AK or AA or whatever, you call. Turn comes an 8, you check/raise again. BB calls down.

In the first scenario, when you were depending on at least one of your opponents flopping a hand or draw at the same time you flopped a hand or draw and their hand or draw being weaker than yours...you gained zero bets postflop. In the second scenario, when you already know that at least one player has a hand he'll be seeing the turn at least with, you hit your big hand and gained 4.5 BBs postflop.

Yes, those are pretty much best case/worst case scenarios, but it illustrates the point.

It is incorrect to call 3 bets cold with 55 in the other hand because it is three bets (not one), there's the chance of it being capped behind you (not the case here), and Hero has far fewer "outs" (more accurately, favorable boards) which will win the hand for him. Or to look at it another way, if you had completed here, BB had raised, and the first limper had then reraised, you would not have been calling 2 more bets because your hand did not justify it and you run the risk of having to put in yet another bet when BB caps.