How many SNG's did you play to get +ROI

[pooh74]

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I started out +ROI and never looked back. There have been downswings but I've never been out of pocket.

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Its true, he sent me a speadsheet of his playmoney $s and it never went red.

[IHateKeithSmart]

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how long did it take you to get positive ROI

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I will post back and let you know.

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and what was the most significant thing you did to increase to positive (ie book, coach, SNGPT)

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I think my copy of sngpt is 'rigged'.

Nah, I think it was about 500 or so. I started out good, went to 0, and am now at about 6 or 8%. 1100 or so $11s, about 2500 $55s. When starting SNGs, I had been playing poker for years, seriously for about 3.

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Millionaires don't comprise a large enough segment of the readers here to warrant catering posts to them.

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OK, I get it now, thanks. I've spent my career in silicon valley and it's silly to assume many others on this board have. I wasn't making a creative counter-arguement... I just live in a place where people who want to learn how to fly buy a plane first, so that they save money on lessons.

Thanks for taking the time to spell it out, most people wouldn't.

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I started out +ROI and never looked back. There have been downswings but I've never been out of pocket.

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Ditto.

I had like 300-400 buy-ins at the $22's when I started playing (that's why I didn't start lower), and I already was reading 2+2 so I started out as a winning player: tight early, push late. Even if you don't do it optimally, you can't go very wrong.

[pzhon]

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As far as $$$ a lucky jackpot and a couple of significant MTT's bankrolled me for the SNG's.

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No, you do not have the bankroll to play the $55s if you are a losing player. Bankrolls are for winning players. Losing players have budgets.

I started as a winning player at the $5 SNGs on Ultimate Bet after working up a free $5 by playing penny-ante NL. It's easier to tell that you are a winning player when you play with a slower blind structure and maintain a ROI over 40%.

Than why do winning players insist on minimum 50 buy in bankroll? A bankroll is for downswings or negative runs?? But you are correct in that in my case it is a budget. I have not reached the limit set aside but want to ask the place where the remainder should be placed for the best returns (educationally and financially). I presumed most started off negative and at a limit that fell in their budget and they "grew" their game. I simply asked at what point did they see positive results. I somehow doubt everyone started positive? Even the best have growing pains in the SNG's. If the obvious choice is to start low than why didn't everyone start at 1.00 SNG's or lower?

[raptor517]

1. holla

[pooh74]

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Than why do winning players insist on minimum 50 buy in bankroll? A bankroll is for downswings or negative runs?? But you are correct in that in my case it is a budget. I have not reached the limit set aside but want to ask the place where the remainder should be placed for the best returns (educationally and financially). I presumed most started off negative and at a limit that fell in their budget and they "grew" their game. I simply asked at what point did they see positive results. I somehow doubt everyone started positive? Even the best have growing pains in the SNG's. If the obvious choice is to start low than why didn't everyone start at 1.00 SNG's or lower?

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It depends on what your personal goals are. What do you expect/want to get out of playing poker? This is why Bazul's post wasn't completely wrong, because for those he is speaking of, it holds merit. For me, putting 50 dollars into a poker account was just for fun and wanting to learn. I didnt know about this place, I read "TOP" and a couple of other things but really chalked it up to "if I get 20 hours entertainment out of this, then I am ahead"

Well, I lost it...but 50 bucks wasnt a big deal to me. So I tried 100 the next time and told myself to stay disciplined. I hovered around 100 for MONTHS!!! playing 5s and ring stud h/l. If your goal is to improve and not lose a ton of money, then set aside an amount that is a good BR for x level and go from there. "x" level should be an efficient starting point however, (not x/50 the $ you have). You CAN learn playing the 11s or 22s...plus, that learning is reinforced by winning more often so losing interest won't be as big a concern.

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Than why do winning players insist on minimum 50 buy in bankroll? A bankroll is for downswings or negative runs?? But you are correct in that in my case it is a budget. I have not reached the limit set aside but want to ask the place where the remainder should be placed for the best returns (educationally and financially). I presumed most started off negative and at a limit that fell in their budget and they "grew" their game. I simply asked at what point did they see positive results. I somehow doubt everyone started positive? Even the best have growing pains in the SNG's. If the obvious choice is to start low than why didn't everyone start at 1.00 SNG's or lower?

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I started out on an insane heater and didn't know it. That fueled my desire to get better, which led me to Harrington on Holdem, which lead me to 2+2.

I think that a lot of players that start and end up being negative ROI for a while just end up quitting. 2+2ers aren't a random selection of party poker players... they are people who for the most part have experienced some success and want to get even better. Or friends of Yugo's.

To answer your OP, I'd suggest start by reading Harrington on Holdem I and II. Work through all the problems, try to guess the correct play before you read on. I've read them both at least 5 or 6 times and constantly reread the problems. It doesn't translate perfectly into play at PP SnGs, but it does let you know what you should think about and watch.

After that, I bought PokerTracker and started replaying my tournaments. I kept a log of what happened that busted me out of each tournament. I noticed I was pushing TP into better hands a lot, and quit doing that as much. I also started playing small pairs more strongly HU.

After that, I started posting hands on 2+2 where I was confused, whether or not I won the hand. Read lots of other hand postings too.

Buy SNGPT and go over the bubble plays in your HH with it and till you have a firm understanding of what's +EV, -EV and marginal.

By this point you should have a solid foundation and might consider hiring a poker coach if you have the money. Paying strong players to review your HHs can really help a lot.

This is kinda the path I've taken, hopefully something in what I shared might help you save a little time or money.