Manny for Abreu - Page 3

TheRover · #21 12-02-2005, 04:09 AM

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thats a link to a place to register for an account.

BOOOOO!

you talking about that jeremy vanderbeek dude?

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Yeah, sorry, didn't realize. I must have used bug-me-not on it some time ago.

If he isn't at least league average when he gets a chance I'll eat a hat.

DougOzzzz · #22 12-02-2005, 05:25 AM

This trade sounds too good from a BoSox fans perspective. Manny is slightly better - worth 1 more win last year according to BP. Abreu is younger, and costs more than 5 mil/season less. The projected perfomances over the next 3 seasons are probably about equal.

imported_The Vibesman · #23 12-02-2005, 09:42 AM

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you think so? I can't think of any deals w/ an AAV of $19m that have been signed recently. there are now a # of $13-$15m guys, but $19M?

well, lets look at the most recent, paul konerko.

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I'm not gonna crunch the numbers, but if you also look at the contract Hideki Matsui got this offseason, it's hard to make a case that Manny is grossly overpaid.

cdxx · #24 12-02-2005, 09:59 AM

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I'm not gonna crunch the numbers, but if you also look at the contract Hideki Matsui got this offseason, it's hard to make a case that Manny is grossly overpaid.

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matsui is $13m per year. ramirez offense is much better than matsui, but he comes at almost 50% premium.

PokerFink · #25 12-02-2005, 11:04 AM

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It seems to me Phillies fans can't really stand it when their players don't show passion. I don't think this is a racial issue like other people do. IE: they don't like Abreu much, but then they didn't like Schmidt either. They love Rollins...

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As a Philly guy, I can say that this is spot on.

For example, Dawkins has always been the most beloved player on the Andy Reid Eagles, because he is certifiably insane on gameday and plays with as much passion as anyone in the league. He also injures people because he hits so hard, and we like that too.

Also, look at the 2001 Sixers. The city was in a frenzy over them, because they had modest talent but just played their hearts out, and they were all playing with injuries that needed surgery.

PokerFink · #26 12-02-2005, 11:08 AM

I don't understand why the Phillies would make this deal.

I don't think the city is ready to adopt another insane mega free agent.

CCx · #27 12-02-2005, 11:16 AM

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I don't think the city is ready to adopt another insane mega free agent.

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You must not have listened to WIP yesterday. This deal is more about getting rid of Bobby Abreu. But the deal is MORE about us getting a player the caliber of Manny Ramirez. But more about getting rid of Bobby Abreu. Philly wants it done! (though it's nothing more than a dream at this point, Gillick gave Abreu the 'we're not shopping you' talk, and Manny has a no trade and already said previously he wouldn't come here)

PokerFink · #28 12-02-2005, 11:29 AM

I'm at school (PSU) so I can't listen to WIP/WYSP, sadly.

Anyway, I'm surprised to hear that. I don't understand why getting rid of Bobby would be such a priority, guys that produce 30/30 every year don't exactly grow on trees.

imported_The Vibesman · #29 12-02-2005, 12:06 PM

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I'm not gonna crunch the numbers, but if you also look at the contract Hideki Matsui got this offseason, it's hard to make a case that Manny is grossly overpaid.

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matsui is $13m per year. ramirez offense is much better than matsui, but he comes at almost 50% premium.

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The difference between .850 OPS, which a lot of outfielders reach, and 1.000 OPS, which few outfielders reach, is worth that premium. It's a pyramid structure.

cdxx · #30 12-02-2005, 12:42 PM

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matsui is $13m per year. ramirez offense is much better than matsui, but he comes at almost 50% premium.

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The difference between .850 OPS, which a lot of outfielders reach, and 1.000 OPS, which few outfielders reach, is worth that premium. It's a pyramid structure.

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that's true, but there's a difference between giving a premium from $8m to $12m, and the premium from $12m to $18m. then you gotta take into account all the other factors. matsui's defense is better, he actually plays EVERY day, etc.

i am sure if you read the yankee message boards you'll find arguments that matsui is worth twice that much in japanese revenue increase alone, but that's really just rationalizing the salary inflation.