|
|
#21
11-20-2005, 05:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
You also didn't adress a line for if you pot the flop and are called (there isn't a good one and that's my point). This is not a very +EV situation and thus you lean towards pot control at the cost of some +EV. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I did. It was: As for the hand goes, pot the flop. On the turn I am more inclined to bet than to check, esp at $25max. However, checking will control pot size but it'd be a shame if it goes check-check and he shows AJ. See my original reply. 
|
|
#22
11-20-2005, 05:30 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
So what happens when they check the flop, and the turn is a spade? If you check, and then bet the turn...if the turn is a rag, and you have a caller, then they probably would have called on the flop anyway. [/ QUOTE ] If it gets checked through and a spade hits i check fold and lost $.35. My ideal spot would be a LP raisor, I call and the players inbetween fold. Now if a spade comes, I bet it. I do this with a more weak kicker mostly however. Maybe they'd call a weak ace (ok at this level they would) but maybe not. If you know they will by all means bet
|
|
#23
11-20-2005, 05:31 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
if someone has a flush draw I lay worse odds by betting the turn rather than the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I guess you hate money. You see that regardless of what price you give him if you have TPGK and he's drawing and you check the flop you lose EV right?
|
|
#24
11-20-2005, 05:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Raise preflop, bet flop, c/c turn, c/r river all in. [/ QUOTE ] I know you are a pooh-bah and all, but it is hardly beneficial to simply give a line without any rationale. Would you care to elaborate on the c/r all in on the river? [/ QUOTE ] Being a poo bah just means I post a lot; that is easily accomplished with posts with no rationale behind them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Maybe c/r river is wrong c/c river is fine. I feel that hero can't realistically expect to play unpaired, unsuited high cards for a min raise preflop and see the flop five handed, let everyone draw for free, and expect to be happy with the results. I retract the c/r river portion.
|
|
#25
11-20-2005, 05:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You also didn't adress a line for if you pot the flop and are called (there isn't a good one and that's my point). This is not a very +EV situation and thus you lean towards pot control at the cost of some +EV. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I did. It was: As for the hand goes, pot the flop. On the turn I am more inclined to bet than to check, esp at $25max. However, checking will control pot size but it'd be a shame if it goes check-check and he shows AJ. See my original reply. [/ QUOTE ] see my original edit. And see my point on the trade off of betting the flop and checking turn vs the other way around. With one card you are 20% to make a flush, but 33% for two cards. By making a bet on the flop and checking turn, the player has 33% chance of making the hand WHEN THEY CALL THE BET, as opposed to 20% if you make the bet on the turn. Therefor you force a bigger mistake when they call. My points are that, my line is not fundamentally incorrect, but is instead a reasonable alternative, and that there may not be an optimal line here. No one has portrayed one so far at least with cost benefits or EV considerations.
|
|
#27
11-20-2005, 05:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Raise preflop, bet flop, c/c turn, c/r river all in. [/ QUOTE ] I know you are a pooh-bah and all, but it is hardly beneficial to simply give a line without any rationale. Would you care to elaborate on the c/r all in on the river? [/ QUOTE ] Being a poo bah just means I post a lot; that is easily accomplished with posts with no rationale behind them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Maybe c/r river is wrong c/c river is fine. I feel that hero can't realistically expect to play unpaired, unsuited high cards for a min raise preflop and see the flop five handed, let everyone draw for free, and expect to be happy with the results. I retract the c/r river portion. [/ QUOTE ] Fair enough. I was just curious about the advice--thought maybe I was missing something. I think c/c on the river is best as well.
|
|
#28
11-20-2005, 05:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] if someone has a flush draw I lay worse odds by betting the turn rather than the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I guess you hate money. You see that regardless of what price you give him if you have TPGK and he's drawing and you check the flop you lose EV right? [/ QUOTE ] Can you back this up rather than just throw that term around? You havne't addressed any of my cost/benefit points or provided any of your own. Does it look like hero lost out on EV here given that he looked weak enough for villain to Raise the river rather than call? Looks about the same.
|
|
#29
11-20-2005, 05:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] my line is not fundamentally incorrect [/ QUOTE ] It always is/will be when you let someone draw for nothing. [/ QUOTE ] Than how can you say this about pot control "checking will control pot size but it'd be a shame if it goes check-check and he shows AJ" ? The magnitude of the mistake increases there. You're risking giving a free card in a larger pot. I am fully open to that being discredited but it hasn't been adressed yet. EDIT: I'm approaching this from a game theory perspective and trying to discount/accredit the EV of two opposite lines. You should do the same
|
|
#30
11-20-2005, 05:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: hrm...?
[ QUOTE ]
You're risking giving a free card in a larger pot. I am fully open to that being discredited but it hasn't been adressed yet. [/ QUOTE ] The chance of him drawing to a card that beats you is lower when he's already invested more money into the pot, therefore, its less risky to check.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
