at bellagio NL game, why no limit to buy in?

From: http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journa...&ucat=&



On another note, I wanted to explain something to all of you once and for all. Many people are very confused in thinking that buying in for more chips than the table has is an advantage all by itself. Let me explain for you all what you are not seeing:

If a bad player bought in for $1,000,000 in a $1-$2 NL game and you bought in for $200, would this bad player have an advantage over you now? Of course not.

All that would be relevant to you, is that when you put your $200 in against him you'd get full value against him and likely have +EV. If $200 is too much for your bankroll, than you could do the same thing with $60. The point is, if you are a better player than him he wouldn't all of a sudden be better than you because he has more money in front of him!

True, you are more likely to go broke than he is, but you are still a favorite to make more money than he does. I would happily, and I mean happily, play a bad player heads up where I risked only $5000 in a 10-20 blind game where he risked $1,000,000. Are you kidding me? The most I could lose is $5000, but I get the chance to knock off a guy for a million if he doesn't quit!

Too many of the people in the FCP forum are missing the bigger picture in regards to my last blog. Even if I went all in blind every hand for $100,000 to win the $15 in the pot, that would NOT be advantageous for ME. It would however, be an EXCELLENT opportunity for the other players to get great value on their good hands.

If you are sitting down in a NL game with $1000, but can't afford to lose it in one hand- you simply shouldn't be playing, period. Instead, you should be buying in for maybe $100 and protecting the rest of your bankroll.

Another poster in the forum used an analogy that went something like, "It's as if you went into a tournament as a massive chip leader, it wouldn't be fair."

Well, there are several holes in that argument:

1) In a cash game you can quit anytime you like.

2) In a cash game, the blinds don't go up.

3) In a tournament, the goal is to end up with all of the chips, while in a cash game it's all about getting +EV when you play.

The only thing that buying in for the most money would ensure you is that it would be less likely that you went broke than someone who bought in for much less. But at what cost? If the guy with $60 goes broke, he loses $60! If the guy who buys in for a $100,000 goes broke, wow, the dude loses $100,000!

When you play poker, you should think in terms of hourly rate, even when playing no limit hold'em. If a guy buys in to your $1-$2 NL game for $100,000 and goes all in blind every hand, ask yourself what that will do to your hourly rate? Do you think this would hurt you somehow? Do you think this player with $100,000 is on to some hidden strategy that has escaped all of the great poker minds in the world?

If you are the best player in your game and have a sufficient bankroll then you should have the table covered. Why? Not because it is in any way some unfair advantage, but because you don't want to have to go all in. The more play there is, the better it is for a good player. Having said that, if the other players at the table all buy in for a small amount, it won't make much difference anyway in how much play there is to the game.

When you buy in to a game YOU have the choice to decide how difficult you want the game to be. If you buy in for the minimum, it makes the correct strategy very simply. If you buy in for the most, it will force you to make more difficult decisions. An example:

You raise to $30 with AA and get three callers. The flop comes 9c 6d 2s and you bet your last $50. That's a no brainer right? Well, what if you had $20,000 in front of you? You bet the $50 and a player raises you $200 more. Now what do you do? It's more difficult isn't it?

You aren't going to stick the whole $20,000 in are you? No, you might raise to $1000 or so. Say you do, and now your opponent raises you back $5000 more? Do you fold? Do you call? Tough isn't it?

No limit hold'em, in it's purest form is a game in which no player would go all in. A game with extremely deep stacks that allow for more pure decisions.

If a bad player buys in for more chips it will actually be a much bigger DISADVANTAGE for him. If a bad player bought in for the minimum every hand, he would lose less money over the long run. His hourly rate might go from -$2000.00 an hour to -$100.00 an hour depending on how bad he plays.

So I hope you all understand now that buying in for more money isn't in itself an advantage at all. It's a BIG disadvantage for a bad player, but will increase a good players hourly rate to have the table covered.

Now if a good player decides to goof around and play recklessly, well he wouldn't be playing very good now would he?

The greatest thing about allowing no maximum buy in is that it gives YOU more options. If you want to buy in cheap and take a shot- you can. If you want to buy in for a ton and go after a sucker, you can do that to.

Finally, if you buy in for $200 and run it up to $1000, but don't feel comfortable losing $1000 in a hand, you can quit!

The reason a casino puts a max buy in on their tables isn't to help YOU at all. It's in their best interest to have LESS fluctuation so that players don't go broke as quickly. Casinos do that to protect THEIR interests of keeping the games going so that they can keep dropping rake. I mean, do you really need someone to hold your hand and tell you how much you can buy in for? "No sir, you don't want to buy in for that much. That's a lot of money sir, please don't gamble that much, we are worried about you." Yeah right!

I have to say, that reading all of those posts about how buying in for a gazillion was an advantage was getting annoying! This concept isn’t that difficult, and it is important that all of you understand it so that you learn how to approach poker the right way.

If you haven’t read it, I would suggest picking up a copy of the “Theory of Poker,” by David Sklansky. That book should help you understand concepts similar to this one.

[etizzle]

on prima, i just found it.

the table is 'turbo dump it'

[Matt Flynn]

Because some people like their no limit unwatered down. Thankfully the Bellagio offers real no limit.

The caps on buyins serve to help the casino - they protect bad players from going bust quickly and reduce the edge good players have.

No, the presence of giant stacks does not put you at a net disadvantage. There is a lot of confusion on that subject, primarily because (1) people don't realize you do not play an infinite session against an infinite stack but rather cash out and rebuy against a merely large stack, and (2) some idea that having everyone covered confers a major advantage, which starts as a math argument and then converts to a psychology argument when the math does not pan out.

There are numerous threads on this.

Matt

[Matt Flynn]

[ QUOTE ]
possible lineup:
chuddo
fsu player
yeti
el diablo
flawless victory
kane kung fu
strassa
matt flynn
lapoker
thabadguy

looks like easy money to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

Yeah! That's a great idea!!!

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
possible lineup:
chuddo
fsu player
yeti
el diablo
flawless victory
kane kung fu
strassa
matt flynn
lapoker
thabadguy

looks like easy money to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
First time i've ever been listed in a 2p2 lineup...wheeeee!!

[chuddo]

just checked on UB nd the biggest no-max game is .25-.50.

we can just agree to have UTG post a 'straddle' every time to either 1 dollar or 2 dollar every time, depending on how big we want the game to run.

to make sure that the biggest blind was allowed to act last preflop we could make there be a minimum open to 2x-straddle to reopen utg's action.

how big of a game would everyone be comfortable playing? and who is interested?

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
just checked on UB nd the biggest no-max game is .25-.50.

we can just agree to have UTG post a 'straddle' every time to either 1 dollar or 2 dollar every time, depending on how big we want the game to run.

to make sure that the biggest blind was allowed to act last preflop we could make there be a minimum open to 2x-straddle to reopen utg's action.

how big of a game would everyone be comfortable playing? and who is interested?

[/ QUOTE ]You can put me on the lineup =) I'd be fine playing that ub game at .25/.5

[burningyen]

FYI Bugsy's Club has no max buy-in on any of their cash games. I once sat with Diablo playing something like .01/.02NL no-cap on UB. It wasn't any fun. Not because of Diablo, who had thousands of dollars in front of him, but because no one else had any more than like $25 on the table. I recommend Bugsy's if you plan on having a 2+2 gathering for this.

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just checked on UB nd the biggest no-max game is .25-.50.

we can just agree to have UTG post a 'straddle' every time to either 1 dollar or 2 dollar every time, depending on how big we want the game to run.

to make sure that the biggest blind was allowed to act last preflop we could make there be a minimum open to 2x-straddle to reopen utg's action.

how big of a game would everyone be comfortable playing? and who is interested?

[/ QUOTE ]You can put me on the lineup =) I'd be fine playing that ub game at .25/.5

[/ QUOTE ]
UR NOT INVITED!! This game is for humans not 10-tabling freaks...go play against JumpMan23.