Hurray for Kansas. A victory for liberals!

[Meech]

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Looks like we agree on 90% of this.

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Agreed.

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I personally like the intellectual stimulus of ID debate and the science that is involved. I do think that the people who are pushing ID in the schools are doing it for, as another poster put it, "theo-political" reason which I think is intellectually dishonest.


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Again agreed. Although most of the scientific debate is more along the lines of "those idiots....".

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I have no problems with a teacher in a science classes stating some holes or inconsisancy in the Darwinian theory and then ending a lesson by saying, "There are other theories that state that life on earth is too complicated for the Darwinian evolutionary model and these people believe a theory called Intelligent Design, see me after class if you would like a reading list of ID books..."


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I have no problem with debating thories in a classroom setting. I have a big problem with school boards mandating religious alternative theories in a science class.

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There is nothing wrong with this, even in a science class...Teaching the Darwinian model as infallible is just a s wrong as teaching ID as fact.


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I think the fact that it's a theory indicates that it's not infallible. But it's what we have now from a _scientific_ perspective.

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Now, if you are using the term "Puritans" as a euphamism for "Ignorant Bible Thumpers who want to impose a theocracy". I will agree... But the real puritans were not such people...


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That is what I meant. I spoke in the present tense.

[CORed]

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A vote for Democrats is never a vote for smaller government.

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Unfortunately, niether is a vote for Republicans any more.

You can vote for big government with idiotic, unnecessary wars and bible thumping morons running things, or big government with affirmative action, welfare programs, possibly socailized medicine and gun control.

Voting in a general election these days is sort of like being offered a choice between being shot and being stabbed.

[superleeds]

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I have no problems with a teacher in a science classes stating some holes or inconsisancy in the Darwinian theory and then ending a lesson by saying, "There are other theories that state that life on earth is too complicated for the Darwinian evolutionary model and these people believe a theory called Intelligent Design, see me after class if you would like a reading list of ID books..."

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You may not have problems with this, but people who know what science, theory, evolution, intelligence and design mean, do.

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There is nothing wrong with this, even in a science class...Teaching the Darwinian model as infallible is just a s wrong as teaching ID as fact

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1. No it isn't and
2. The 'Darwinian model' as you call it is not taught as infallible. Certain aspects of 'Evolution' (I think this is what your Darwinian model is alluding to) are taught as fact because quite simply they are.

[PoBoy321]

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You don't read this forum much, do you?

That or my sarcasm detector is broken?

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Admittedly, I don't read this forum much, so I have no idea what pvn's leanings tend to be.

It was a serious question since I really wasn't sure what the point of his post was.

[BadBoyBenny]

NateDog advocates parent's choosing their children's school and you argue against monarchy???

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Better we decide what we teach out children -- and sometimes, yes, we will get it spectacularly wrong.

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Do you think society has a higer ownership claim on children than their parents? If you use a line like this to refute his school choice arguement, then that seems like a logical conclusion.

[microbet]

Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

[microbet]

I don't think he does anymore. I think that was just a phase.

In this case I think he's just advocating, at least school choice, at most removing education from the governments control.

[microbet]

Is it really undemocratic to think someone who sends their kid to another school or doesn't have a kid should have any say in what your kid learns?

Should everything be subject to the majority opinion of everyone?

[natedogg]

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You do realize that handing out vouchers for schooling is liberalism at its worst

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What exactly does that mean? Especially coming from a modern american liberal, I'd really like to know. I'm a big fan of liberalism, if by liberalism you mean "allowing maximum amount of choice and freedom" as opposed to the modern definition which is more like "authoritarian micromanagemetn of all aspects of our lives except for abortion for some reason"

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besides being a killer for quality private school education.

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And once again you reveal your complete ignorance for how markets work. Unless you want to argue against federal subsidies of student loans, which are used at any school all over the country, (religious, private and public), you have no leg to stand on.

But your concern over possibly distorting the markets is disingenous to say the least, coming from a command-and-control type like yourself.

To claim that a voucher system where schools compete for parents' choice would somehow diminish education quality requires willful ignorance and outright rejection of the most basic understanding of how competition works.

In one sense, yes, vouchers would distort the education market, but only in relation to a purely free-market ideal (which does not exist). To use this as an argument against vouchers requires Orwellian doublethink. "We shouldn't distort the market, because we've utterly distorted it and to distort it would distort it. Slavery is freedom." Don't pay attention to the fact that we already do far, far, more to distort the market now. Vouchers would be a step BACK from the level of distortion we are experiencing now.

natedogg

[BCPVP]

Saying that pvn is rabidly anti-government would be an understatement. So that kinda rules out a dictator.