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#21
10-25-2005, 06:45 PM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
Maybe when you get to 100/200 people are actually taking things seriously enough to be able to pick up something, but I'm never going to put much stock in it because there are just too damn many factors that can impact the speed with which somebody's action registers on the table.
I remember reading in an "online poker is rigged" thread, somewhere (not sure it was on here), about a year ago, a guy claiming that he was making money hand over fist because he had played so many hands at thus-and-such a site he could predict based on his cards, his position and his opponents' actions when he was going to lay a bad beat on the table. I don't buy that, either. 
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#22
10-25-2005, 06:47 PM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
[ QUOTE ]
Two out of three times the "instant" guys had the best hand. One time I had, but his hand was ok too. [/ QUOTE ] I think you _hould _eriou_ly con_ider your _ample _ize. Your Truly, Madame Obvious (Unle__ my _arca_m detector i_ broken.)
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#23
10-25-2005, 07:13 PM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
I've never played 100/200, but I suspect that players at that level:
(i) have invested in a fast internet connection (ii) are giving the game their full attention and not doing half a dozen other things while playing; and (iii) are unlikely to be 8-tabling. All of those things are going to affect speed of play at lower limits. Putting your faith in clicking tells in the micros is folly IMO DU
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#27
10-26-2005, 10:26 AM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe when you get to 100/200 people are actually taking things seriously enough to be able to pick up something, but I'm never going to put much stock in it because there are just too damn many factors that can impact the speed with which somebody's action registers on the table. [/ QUOTE ] This is absolutely true. I'm just saying there is definitely something to it at least at some level. It's like the difference between someone shoving their chips quickly into the pot in a live game versus deliberately stacking them. I think the better your opponents are the more there is to timing tells because the less often they have to really take a minute to think about a decision and even if they are 4-8 tabling their decisions are usually very fast (actually especially then because they can't really afford to delay). Against many opponents, if there is a delay on the turn they are deciding whether they want to chase or not and you can usually bet a harmless river with confidence because there's a very good chance a bluff will work. [ QUOTE ] I remember reading in an "online poker is rigged" thread, somewhere (not sure it was on here), about a year ago, a guy claiming that he was making money hand over fist because he had played so many hands at thus-and-such a site he could predict based on his cards, his position and his opponents' actions when he was going to lay a bad beat on the table. I don't buy that, either. [/ QUOTE ] Neither do I :-)
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#28
10-26-2005, 10:33 AM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
[ QUOTE ]
It's like the difference between someone shoving their chips quickly into the pot in a live game versus deliberately stacking them. [/ QUOTE ] That's my point. In a live game you can see if there's an external cause for your opponent's hesitation. If he takes 15 seconds to bet because he's making out with a cocktail waitress, you know it. You don't online. [ QUOTE ] I think the better your opponents are the more there is to timing tells because the less often they have to really take a minute to think about a decision and even if they are 4-8 tabling their decisions are usually very fast (actually especially then because they can't really afford to delay). Against many opponents, if there is a delay on the turn they are deciding whether they want to chase or not and you can usually bet a harmless river with confidence because there's a very good chance a bluff will work. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah. I'd give pause tells more credit against better opponents more credit.
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#29
10-26-2005, 10:34 AM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
[ QUOTE ]
(i) have invested in a fast internet connection [/ QUOTE ] It's fairly easy to tell the difference between someone with a crappy internet connection and someone with a good one. If they delay 8 seconds every time the action is to them it's not likely that they are really thinking that much. [ QUOTE ] (ii) are giving the game their full attention and not doing half a dozen other things while playing [/ QUOTE ] This is definitely true, although i would add that many low limit players only play one table as well. [ QUOTE ] (iii) are unlikely to be 8-tabling [/ QUOTE ] This is also true. I've found it to be more useful at 6-max because people tend to play fewer tables. Although 8-tablers do tend to make fast decisions. Again this is something you can spot though if they vary between instant responses and delaying until the clock is almost out with easy decisions there's a reasonable chance that this is the case. I just think it's like any other factor that goes into a hand. If he check/raised the flop and then hesitated for a few seconds before leading the turn I may be more likely to call down (or even raise).
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#30
10-26-2005, 10:38 AM
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Re: An Observation: Betting Speed = Tell
[ QUOTE ]
That's my point. In a live game you can see if there's an external cause for your opponent's hesitation. If he takes 15 seconds to bet because he's making out with a cocktail waitress, you know it. You don't online. [/ QUOTE ] I agree, there is no way to determine if your opponent is making out with a cocktail waitress when playing against them online [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] You are right though - there's no way online to know for sure what the cause of the delay is (internet hiccup, playing another table, talking on aim, surfing the web, afk, etc).
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