Loose games when you can almost never protect your hand

[sirana]

About the small suited connectors:

If you knew they will bet behind you AND if you knew that they won't raise behind you you could play them in earlier position.

small suited connectors are only profitable:

1. If the pot is multiway
2. You can see the flop cheaply


btw, same goes for small PP

[Innocentius]

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Yeah about those connectors, SSHE says only play them from late position (the lower ones).. is that because from early you don't know if enough people will be in on the flop to give you the proper odds? Because in loose games, since you know they will bet behind you, maybe it's ok to play them earlier anyway?

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There is also another issue involved: When playing small suited connectors, if you connect with the flop, you will most likely still have a drawing hand, and position is even more important when you draw than when you have a made hand.

So even if you KNOW that four people are going to call behind you, and noone will raise, you are worse off than when calling from the button after four limpers.

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Anybody who played a lot of play money tables before moving to the real thing will tell you that the exact game you described are a limit players dream.

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God yes. My response to the original message was, "Wow, what is this Fortune site and why aren't I playing there?"

In fact, someone please give me a link to their website.

[DavidC]

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See this is the confusion though, I know that if the board is coordinated, you want to wait for the turn, and if it's a blank, protect then.


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Not necessarily.

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But in this example (which is very similar to one in the book) it says raise on the flop. But either way, everyone just calls so what's the real difference?


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This is in the book.

Ok, so here's my confusion. There are four options involving when to protect your hand (flop or turn) and how to do so (raise or check-raise). How do I figure out when to do what? I get as so far as to say, with a coordinated flop and a decent pot you can't protect on the flop, but beyond that I'm a bit confused. I'll read the section again but want to know your thoughts.

edit: yeah it's good i reread this section :d

[MATT111]

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See this is the confusion though, I know that if the board is coordinated, you want to wait for the turn, and if it's a blank, protect then. But in this example (which is very similar to one in the book) it says raise on the flop. But either way, everyone just calls so what's the real difference? And their calls give me little to no information except that they either have a pair or are on some kind of draw.

As to what hands they have, it was suggested 98 or 86 for example.

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What you have to understand is that you want them to call. You give them improper odds to call to put yourself in a win-win situation. If they fold - thats good; if they call - that`s better.

Unless the pot is somewhat large, correct?

[numeri]

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Unless the pot is somewhat large, correct?

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I know you're trying to understand here, but you really need to read some of these posts more carefully. Having the best hand now does not guarantee you will win the pot. In the examples, as has been stated several times already, you will win more than your fair share, so you don't care if others call along.

Let's be more specific. In this post, I used your example with AK on a K75 board vs Kx, middle pair, a GSD, and 3 other random hands. You have 38% equity in this pot. Since there are 7 people in this pot, your "fair share" is 1/7 = 14%. So you will win this pot 38% of the time while only putting in 14% of the money if everyone calls. That's what we mean by betting for value, even if you can't protect.

That's why we bet flush draws on the flop if we expect at least two callers. (Flush draws come in 35% of the time, and 3-handed you have 33% equity. If we bet in that case, why wouldn't we when we have 38% equity 7-handed?)

Again, I know you're trying to learn, but read some of these posts more carefully. There are posters here who really do have a lot to offer if you take the time to read them carefully.

Good luck.

[DavidC]

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SSHE says little about these games.

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SSHE specializes in these types of games, to the point of exclusion of other types of games, like the ones that HPFAP specializes in.

--Dave.

My suggestion, sorry to say, is that you read some hand posts on here, as well as read some through SSHE a few more times (I may have read this book like 4 times, it's worth doing).

--Dave.

HPFAP has a special section on loose games and maniacs, in SSHE the general assumption is that the players aren't nuts as far as I can tell.