80/160 AK hand vs Tommy, missed some betst? - Page 3

Steve Giufre · #21 10-19-2005, 11:59 PM

At first I was gonna say I hate the turn check, but the more I think about it, maybe its OK. I'm guessing his three bet range out the sb is super small after you raise UTG, so if you are ahead he probably only has two outs. It all depends on what he thinks of you and wether or not he gonna pay you off with JJ or QQ.

I was thinking you save some bets whe behind with your line, but im not sure that realy true since I'm not sure you have to pay off a turn checkraise. So I guess with a half way loose image I'm betting the turn, but if he thinks I'm a tight ass I might check behind too. He cant get away from it on the river in that case I dont think. VS basically anyone else its obviously a bet.

cookie · #22 10-20-2005, 12:39 AM

This might be newbish, but why no cap preflop?

Chris Daddy Cool · #23 10-20-2005, 12:44 AM

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This might be newbish, but why no cap preflop?

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against tommy's range of 3-betting hands from the blinds i'm a signficant dog.

elindauer · #24 10-20-2005, 12:53 AM

Hi Chris,

I've never played against Tommy, but if his posts are typical of his style, then you're facing a very tight opponent who is also capable of making some rather big laydowns.

Now, when you face a tight player, you usually want to bluff more, and value bet less. However, Tommy is probably smart to recognize if you do something as obvious as going passive with your good hands, and attacking with bluffs. Right?

So, which do you prefer? You can play a little more passively with your strong hands, or you can play them aggressively and perhaps make a little less, while giving yourself the ability to steal some pots later.

So, since it's close enough, I'm going to bet the turn. Also suggesting a bet is the fact that, from what I understand, Tommy does not do a lot of check-raising.

my 2 cents.
eric

elindauer · #25 10-20-2005, 12:55 AM

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Oh besides not playing against Tommy you could not have played that hand any better. Bet the turn and Tommy mucks a weaker hand. Check the turn and bet the river and you get him to pay off with his smaller pair. Perfect play. You don't gain anything by betting the turn. Either you are beat or Tommy has 2 outs.

Vince

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This was my thinking on the hand too. Tommy seems to be notoriously good at folding when beat. Why not give him his chance at 2 outs, if it means he'll pay off a river bet?

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If Tommy will really play this weak, and I doubt it, then you should be happy to throw him a bone every once in a while by betting when you actually do have a K and he has aces, in order to keep him mucking virtually every other hand you play. Surely you don't think he is so stupid as to not notice that you only bet the turn when you DON'T have it.

my 2 cents.
eric

tonysoldier · #26 10-20-2005, 01:51 AM

Somebody should mention the possibility of raising the flop ... too late.

mmbt0ne · #27 10-20-2005, 01:54 AM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
If Tommy will really play this weak, and I doubt it, then you should be happy to throw him a bone every once in a while by betting when you actually do have a K and he has aces, in order to keep him mucking virtually every other hand you play. Surely you don't think he is so stupid as to not notice that you only bet the turn when you DON'T have it.

my 2 cents.
eric

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It's not that I think Tommy's stupid/weak, it's just that if he is behind, he's WAY behind. It would be different here if Tommy had 5 outs, or more, but in this situation it's almost certain that either Tommy has 2 outs, or CDC is basically dead.

I don't know what kind of game CDC had been playing up to this point, but I can't imagine too large of a range that Tommy put him on at this point. CDC's likely capping preflop with any top pair. Not much is calling that flop except a way ahead/way behind hand, and I don't see CDC calling with Ts, or a draw there very often. Obviously Tommy didn't either as he seemed ok to let CDC have a free card to draw with if he wanted.

Steve Giufre · #28 10-20-2005, 02:08 AM

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Somebody should mention the possibility of raising the flop ... too late.

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Not crazy about raising the flop VS Tommy there. Way ahead or way behind, blah blah blah.

elindauer · #29 10-20-2005, 02:15 AM

The point is, if you believe Tommy is going to check fold QQ/JJ on the turn, then you believe that his game is extremely exploitable. CDC need merely make the flop call with anything he'll raise preflop, and then take the pot away by bluffing should Tommy check to him.

There are 2 possibilities.

1) Tommy will not fold QQ/JJ. In this case, CDC should bet.

2) Tommy will fold QQ/JJ. In this case, CDC can consider checking to perhaps gain some now. However, if he chooses this route, he gives up on the hope of picking up the pot here when he actually does not have a king, which should be often if Tommy is so weak as to fold here. Do you see what I'm getting at? He can't only bet when he doesn't have AK as his opponent is observant.

So, to sum up. Bet because Tommy is not so weak a player as to always check-fold when an overcard hits. If he is actually that weak, bet to keep him that way, because it's super profitable for you. Hope that he choose this time to look you up.

good luck.
eric

elindauer · #30 10-20-2005, 02:18 AM

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Somebody should mention the possibility of raising the flop ... too late.

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Hi tony,

As with my other posts, I agree that raising is a perfectly viable play if you believe Tommy may fold. Huh? Well, you're getting about 4:1 to make this bluff, so if he folds everything but AA and KK, you'd love to make it when you don't have it. Since your opponent is observant, you must also raise then when you do.

Against an unobservant opponent who is also as tight as Tommy, or if you only played this hand in isolation, calling is clearly best.

-eric