Stealing from other forums...

[brettbrettr]

link?

[blackaces13]

Sure.

[@bsolute_luck]

i think the debatable street is the river. not the turn. let lower pairs try and bluff you out on the river as you're getting raised by an Ace or a tricky opponent and folding weaker pairs, but with 2 OCs on the river and you calling the turn bet, i doubt most lower pairs are betting this river.

[Harv72b]

Daniel Negreanu said:

[ QUOTE ]
You have K-Q with the King of spades. Board is 2-3-7-9 all spades. You check and your opponent bets. Obviously, you should just call here and check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against all but the most aggressive/clueless opponents, I have to disagree with that.

I agree with what he said about the OP, though, and for the same reasons. Betting the turn allows your opponent to bluff us off of our KK on the scare card, or fold his own 2-outer. I also prefer check/calling on this river, because I absolutely want to go to showdown but I can't spend 2 BBs to do so if I get raised.

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]
Negreanu, Eric Lindgren, Jennifer Harmon, and Joe Cassidy all recommend a play here that I'm pretty sure everyone on this board would disagree with.

[/ QUOTE ]

What did they advocate? -- Check raising the flop?

[felix83]

I think Dan N.'s thinking here might be that unless your opponent has a monster he'll fold to a river donk on the 4-flush board. So the only chance you have to make any money on the river is if your opponent bluffs at it.

Or alternatively, I have no idea what I'm talking about. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet folding the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check/calling the turn is where it's at.

[Pharity]

Yes you are right. He has to bluff-bet with worse hands something like 10% for check/folding to be the wrong move. And since a normal player doesnt even come close to 10% the river action should be check/fold.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Dan N.'s thinking here might be that unless your opponent has a monster he'll fold to a river donk on the 4-flush board. So the only chance you have to make any money on the river is if your opponent bluffs at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably what he's thinking, but at least in a SS game I think he's wrong often enough for a bet to +EV.

It's seemed to me, recently at least, that so many people have seen the Clarkmeister that I get called by just about any made hand when I donk the 4-flush board, so I think it's likely that you get called by a lot of hands that would check through the river. Kind of like when online poker went through that phase where you couldn't buy a free card no matter what you tried.

Then again, I will readily concede that Daniel knows a helluvalot more about poker than I do. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Pharity]

But if you would call a river bet, shouldnt you bet yourself since he won't raise a worse hand in this spot? Otherwise he will only check through the hands you beat and you will pay him off when he is ahead.