Small flush on paired board

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NL400 players can't lay down QQ there to a PSB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: Also, you don't have to win every pot. Just because this flop is really bad for me doesn't mean I have to bluff at it. I can just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
C'mon dude, the flop is A73r. It's practically the least coordinated possible ace-high flop. This seems like a great spot to bet in a three-handed pot with both opponents checking.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NL400 players can't lay down QQ there to a PSB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: Also, you don't have to win every pot. Just because this flop is really bad for me doesn't mean I have to bluff at it. I can just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
C'mon dude, the flop is A73r. It's practically the least coordinated possible ace-high flop. This seems like a great spot to bet in a three-handed pot with both opponents checking.

[/ QUOTE ]
Read my post on this topic and then respond with your thoughts, please. Because for exactly the reasons that you are advocating betting, I think it is likely for the PFR to check an ace here. And there is always the chance that the EP player was slowplaying to trap the PFR.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
Min bet seems weird. What do you think it means?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pair + newly found flush draw.

[jhall23]

I agree this is the perfect type of flop to mix in a check with AK, AQ etc as opposed to continuation betting.

[soah]

Looks good. If BB shows AQ or something then he's a total donk. He bets almost nothing on the turn and fires big when the obvious draw hits, and there's usually a reason when people do that. I'd expect a boat or a flush somewhat often. If you do have him beaten, what could have have that's strong enough to call a big raise from you given the action? Without reads I don't know that I'd want to be playing a huge pot at this point. I'd hate to put myself in a spot where I'm folding out all the hands I beat and losing more of my stack to hands that beat me. With all that said though, I imagine that in the heat of the moment I'd probably raise. Sometimes I'll get paid off by trips, and sometimes I lose a lot of money. Hard to say for sure whether raising or calling is better (especially since I have no idea how the games at Empire have been playing the past week).

You almost certainly have the other player beaten and he will fold to a raise. He should be somewhere around QQ-99 or sometimes a weaker ace ATs and below. Raising gets no value from him since he'll almost always fold those hands.

[GrunchCan]

You called preflop cold. Did you think that your call would enduce further calls behind you? Becasue I need some overlay before calling a big preflop raise with a hand like T8s. At the point when you call the PFR, you have no overlay. I lay this down PF in this scenario every time.

[soah]

The BB will check this flop no matter what he has in most cases and he doesn't have much reason to believe you have anything. If the preflop raiser acted first postflop and it was checked to me I'd feel a lot more confident about betting.

Auto-betting when it's checked to you is extremely exploitable. You simply must give up some of the pots that you're involved with or you will be spewing chips all night long against some guys who figured out all they need to do is keep checking to you. Flopping zero outs against two opponents seems to be a good pot to give up.

[TheWorstPlayer]

In some games I lay this down preflop, too. I am working on laying it down all the time. But often my evil inclination makes me play this type of hand on the BN even heads up.

[MTBlue]

If he's folding all of those hands. Shouldn't we be raising in this spot with any two cards? A boat seems really unlikely given the lines and the consensus is that's the only thing that will call a raise. The other thing is with the amount of money back there is no reason we have to back our stack with this hand even if we raise. Maybe I'm way out of line but I think there is more value in this hand. Hell if the players are that tight raising could be a bluff to fold higher flushes.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]

Then what are your criteria for which pots qualify?

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, this isn't an optimal spot to steal. I think it's borderline. But I think I would still probably try it. My primary criteria is:

--smallish pot. This is approaching the upper limit of a small pot.
--2-3 players. This works.
--Drawless flop. This works.
--K, Q, or J high flop. Sticking point.
--Is it logical for me to be betting with a made hand here. This also works.
--Unraised or minraised preflop. Problematic here.

The action taken at face value says that neither villian holds an ace, as they are likely to bet Ax, especially the PFR. It is perfectly logical to assume that both villians hold a non-Ax hand and would fold to a bet from you. Now there are some "ifs" in there. If EP checked to the raiser with a hand like AQ/77, you are toast. If PFR is capable of checking AK on this board, you are toast. (But, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't that big of a deal because you only need to succeed on these steal attempts about 40% of the time for them to be profitable)

If you don't bet here, you lose your only chance to win the pot (outside of runner runner, which actually happened). And that is the primary reason that compels me to bet here with any two. Bet a reasonable, logical amount here...whatever you'd bet if you had AQ, and try to take it down. If you get called, you're done with the hand. If you need 4 outs or more to steal, you're missing out on lotsa $$$.

As far as being on the button and looking like a steal: they're still hardpressed to call without an ace in their hand. I don't think that this concern should be given too much consideration.

Again, not optimal...but I would take a shot. Even if you get called, you don't mind them knowing that you'll take shots at pots (this hand being the first hand at the table), so that you get paid later when you do have the goods in pot stealing situations where they call you down with second pair.