Poker School Online?

[schwza]

how much does pso cost? in a nutshell, what does it consist of?

i'd say i got 95% of my poker education from this site (besides playing). you only have to read someone write "you shouldn't have gotten all of your chips in on the flop when you're 50 big blinds deep with top pair no kicker in an unraised pot" so many times before you can write it to someone else's post and act on it yourself. it was a very useful tool for me to ask myself "if i call right now, would 2+2 heckle me for it?"

the same idea applies for more subtle things too, but learning hand values is key.

i learned limit first, but i think it's really boring now. i'd recommend playing the micro NL cash games at stars or UB (.01/.02, max $5 buy-in, but i think most buy in for $2). MTT's are annoying because you could be way better than the field and go for months without showing a profit.

[locutus2002]

Poker school online is a per monthly subscription to a poker site where people play for "fake" dollars.

It is a feeder for Bugsy's club as the software and tournament structures are the same.

Many of the better players on Bugsy's club were in pokerschoolonline for varying durations of time.

It's a great environment because the people are nice, and its a cheap way to see alot of cards. The lessons are not as useful as a book, but it is important to flip alot of cards. I remember the heady days when I used to reraise with KJs (thinking it was the best hand).

It was not until I joined 2+2 that my game really started to improve, but I already had enough experience to know some of what they were talking about.

The friendly environment flows from pokershoolonline to bugsysclub. If they had bigger games, I wouldn't play anywhere else.

Here is my advice:

play low limit and freerolls on Bugsysclub, and skip pokerschoolonline. Read 2+2, and get a few books. Don't move up until you are ready. I am still playing on the first $40 I deposited in bugsysclub, which has incubated all my accounts. I suggest bugsysclub over the other sites for beginners because:

against 100 player fields you're going to make alot of final tables (even as a beginner).
At low limits the money doesn't matter (you're playing for fun).
The structure is deep stack, and very forgiving of mistakes.
The environment is friendly.


GL to you.

The guys screen name was PokerMat(t)s but I can't remember his full name. He won his seat through Bugsys as you said.

First post and I don't proclaim to know what I'm talking about but, I agree with Exit.

I think you should use all the FREE resources available to you before you start subscribing to things. An annual fee of $150 is money that you could put into your BR instead.

I am mainly a SnG player who started out as a limit player and I have just started playing MTT's (Hence why I agree with Exit). I have picked up loads of great tips and advice from 2+2 just from lurking (hopefully I will now become a more active member) and it hasn't cost me a penny. I also believe (although future posts may prove me wrong!) that it has made me a much better player with a much better understanding of the game.

[ QUOTE ]
Here's something that surprised me, happily so. I'm devouring HOH 1 and 2. I realized if I'd gotten these two books when I first started, I'd be overwhelmed with the information in them. Now, over a year later, I can take more of each subject and hand because I can say, "ok, I've seen that."

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, that is. HOH 1 and 2 were the first books I read, probably a month after I started playing. After reading them I was even more confused, but somehow Dan's examples started to show themselves while I was playing. I recently went back and re-read both books and gained SO MUCH MORE from them this time through that I'm now going back through my entire library to do the same. It's time to "tear down my game" and rebuild based on everything I've learned. Sounds to me like you've done the same.

[ QUOTE ]
My suggested path--WLLH->SSHE->Theory of Poker->HOH1->HOH2. over six months or more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually the path I would recommend too, tossing in King Yao's Weighing the Odds in Hold 'em Poker after Miller's SSHE and also David Sklansky's Tournament Poker for Advanced Players after HOH. Any beginner to intermediate limit players that haven't bought King Yao's book yet should give it serious consideration - it's a truly great book with a few ideas that are unique within the genre and worth the price of the book alone.

[ QUOTE ]
As to the original topic--Poker School Online--I don't think that it would get one from here to there any faster. I'm always skeptical of those who claim they can teach what only experience and self-motivation can provide.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take that one step further. All of the resources for someone to learn this game are out there for the taking, and for a (relatively) small price I might add. Anyone without the desire to improve will not succeed, regardless of the path they choose. Someone with drive and motivation can succeed, they just need to choose the path that's best for them. If Poker School Online (or anything similar) is the best way you can motivate yourself to work at it, then by all means choose the path that you will stick with. Plenty of people make use of their services, or other similar ones, and are successful. If you are capable of self-motivation and working hard at an end result then run out and grab the first book on the list and get started. Nearly everyone on these forums is happy to help when you ask for it.

As an example, I used to teach computer networking classes and had all types of students, ranging from the ones that were completely out of their element all the way to the super geniuses who truly were above the classes intended audience. The truly talented and knowledgable people that felt they were above reading and hard work usually didn't pass their certification tests while guys that were making career changes and were depending on the prospect of a new career worked their butts off to succeed. I can recall one student that was on disability and changing carrers who showed up daily at 8:00 AM to use the lab until classes started each evening. Sadly he had to take his tests more than once to pass, but he worked hard at it and succeeded. It's about being dedicated to an end result and making use of the resources available to you in the way that benefits you most.

Regardless, it seems we're both advocating the same thing here. So I'll just say I hope to see you with me at a FT someday soon.... preferably to my right. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker school online is a per monthly subscription to a poker site where people play for "fake" dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

i cannot see how this could be a good deal. if you put the same amount of money into low buy-in games, you might win, and i think that it'd probably be better learning.

[locutus2002]

If you have no expectation of winning, then you can play at pokerschoolonline unlimited for your flat monthly fee. You cannot play $15 for a whole month without winning on low limits.

[McMelchior]

I was a member of PSO for a year before I started posting on 2 + 2.

I left the site February '03, so a lot might have changed since. That said, I cannot recommend the site to anyone.

The site (back then) held some instruction pages on how to play NLHE tournaments, that exclusively advocated a weak-tight approach. Only through the boards different ways of playing were being addressed.

There was a great comradery on the boards and in the tournaments. Apart from dialogues (not live chats, just Q and A) with players like Rolf Slotboom, Andrew Glazer and Lou Krieger this was the only context where "teaching" took place. So much for the "school" concept.

When I joined the site - 4 months after it's upstart - Matthias Anderson was already one of the most successful members, with top-placement in most of the "school"-tournaments. The members that dominated the tournaments and the boards all seemed to have a substantial background in poker - another very successful member, "Apryllshowers", was a long term cash-game pro who just joined to gain experience with the WSOP ME-like tournament structure, and Daniel Rentzer who was a member for approximately half a year never managed to explain to the very interested members how he had transformed the weak-tight approach taught by the site into his WPT final table strategy.

I left because the founder, Mark Napolitano, started relegating members for criticizing the site in the boards. Not because of flame wars, not because of slandering - just plain critique of the policy of the management. I made a few posts questioning the policy of banning members that expressed disagreement with the management, and they were promptly deleted by Mark N.

Interesting enought the members that were kicked out were the same ones that recommended more pro-active ways of playing, blind stealing etc.

Oh yes, and I once typed "f##k" (spelled out) in the chat during a tournament - not "f##k you" - after a bad beat. I received a personal email from Mark's wife telling me they would not accept profanities in "their" cardroom, and that it would have repercussion if I repeated.

Oh, and the site introduced a "sponsorship league" concept - top placers in the "school" tournaments accumulated points, that could be converted into tournament buy-ins after a certain system. Needless to say exclusively the members with years of prior poker experience benefitted from this.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

Thanks everyone for the absolutely greate responses. There was more insight than I expected.

Unfortunately this has all confused my options. I am reticent to play in cash games as I have a sorta personal, not problem, but say wariness of them.

After seeing all of the responses it seems that I have three options.

1. Join poker school online and play in a good number of MTT's a month for a flat fee of 15 dollars.

2. Invest that 15 dollars into a sight and play as many tournaments as I can each month at the micro level.

3. Play cash games and work my way up to MTT's

I did not include the book sequence in number three as I plan on buying those and working through them regardless of which option I choose.

Not trying to be boneheaded but I'm trying to figure out the most effecient way to play, hopefully, without playing cash games.

[BlackAces]

I was also a member, from 2002-2003. I can attest to what McMelchior has said.

One of the biggest problems with the site is that their ranking system that they used to award sponsorship points to PSO events was (is) based on survival strategy, which is very difficult to unlearn. A person who finished 30th three times in 100-person tournaments would have a higher standing than someone who finished first once and last twice. Anyone who's seen how CardPlayer runs their Player of the Year standings can see how hard it is to come up with a decent ranking system, but a system that awards players most for clinging to every last step up the ladder at the expense of any chance at winning (or cashing, in many cases) is deeply flawed.

Plus, the staff (i.e. Mark and Tina Napolitano) were quite unreceptive to even reasonable suggestions. Hence, the memory-intensive Java interface, the ranking system, and the lack of hand histories for my entire tenure (even though they were promised when I first joined!).

I cannot, in good conscience, recommend it to anyone whose primary goal is becoming a good tournament player.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who's seen how CardPlayer runs their Player of the Year standings can see how hard it is to come up with a decent ranking system, but a system that awards players most for clinging to every last step up the ladder at the expense of any chance at winning (or cashing, in many cases) is deeply flawed.


[/ QUOTE ]

i've always been a fan of "how much money did you win?" and yes, the system you described sounds horrible.