600 NL...sick sick sick...did i mention this was a sick hand?

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]

so you are MP and lets say you hold QJ and you make it to the river using the line in the OP. are you pushing? i am pretty sure 90% of us are value betting. but if we can get another Q to fold, wouldn't it be reasonable to be pushing a lot more often.


i am thinking about this push against a TAGish 2+2er type.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you call $650 to win $88, you need to be correct 85% of the time. I'd say at least 1/3 of the time random player x moves in here they have hero beat.

If you're considering putting in an all-in bet to get villain to fold, you need to consider the chance that he has something smaller the boat you have, and will pay off a moderate value bet while folding to an all-in. Something tells me that unless the pot is already large, moving in to try to push out a tied hand (which will not always work and will sometimes run you into the nuts yourself) is going to be less EV than value betting and getting smaller hands to call occasionally.

[Kirkrrr]

" Something tells me that unless the pot is already large, moving in to try to push out a tied hand (which will not always work and will sometimes run you into the nuts yourself)"

I hope to god someone out there is listening to that. I learned my lesson the other day, pushing with second nuts to try to get a tied hand out for at least 3xPot and get dead money in the middle from a player that was all in... he didn't have me tied. At all. I came away hurt, dissapointed, and enlightened [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But yeah, calling off a huge overbet in hopes that you get to chop is just idiotic, but something everyone simply has to learn for themselves after running into unexpected quads and bigger boats enough times. I love to make those big overbets cuz they do pay off a disproportionate amount of the time.

Kirk

[Kirkrrr]

With those stack sizes and his excellent position post-flop, I'd have to disagree. I call with anything aproaching reasonable in that spot... 4,5 is almost a premium hand.

Kirk

[mgsimpleton]

you realize going all in on the river for 1/5 pot is slightly different than going all in for 5x pot, right?

[tommo]

yeah, I know, its a lot different. I just tried to find a pot against a person who bluffs too much where I could have been beaten but was probably ahead.