AA Deepstacked

[Lucky]

Push, he put in 3rd bet, he wants to play.

[Jason Strasser]

Doesnt this depend on what you define as a mistake. I think pushing is +ev but I think that there are other options that are probably higher +ev given the fact that hero will probably only push AA here and Shania will sodomize him.

So not choosing the highest EV play is a mistake, right? Or are you saying hero will get miserably outplayed postflop so that pushing preflop is correct?

--El D #1 fan

[Jason Strasser]

[ QUOTE ]
You should cash out and come back in 30 minutes if you are uncomfortable with this much $ on table. As it stands, you MUST reraise to at least 1k. Trapping here is not good at all. If he's making a play with 76s, he hasn't invested TOO much preflop (25 bbs out of 800 isn't that much), if he hits a flop, you are going to be putting in 775/800 bb's in with the loser. If he has KK and an A flops, you will kill yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christ.

Are you serious?

Don't say MUST blah blah when you are playing 800bb poker. There is no must. Hero can do anything except fold here and it would be fine with few exceptions.

You also imply that if the villain has 76s and outflops AA he will get all 800bb hahaha. Im pretty sure if hero flat calls here preflop he is not tied to the pot...

Oh yeah. I also don't think a call from KK here is automatic by any stretch. So by saying 'you'll kill yourself if an A flops' I think you should be saying 'you'll kill yourself if he folds KK face up to your massive preflop overbet from a scared player'.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not really feel like getting stacked for that much though.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you ever feel this way leave any table because you aren't playing your best.
-Jason

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt this depend on what you define as a mistake. I think pushing is +ev

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, kid, you shouldn't think that pushing is +ev.

[ QUOTE ]
but I think that there are other options that are probably higher +ev given the fact that hero will probably only push AA here and Shania will sodomize him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but what hand range will he re-raise with here?

[ QUOTE ]
So not choosing the highest EV play is a mistake, right? Or are you saying hero will get miserably outplayed postflop so that pushing preflop is correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am taking post-flop into account given how scared he will be to play for his stack. If villain has a reasonable idea of his re-raising range here (and if he's not a moron I bet he does) AND a good idea of how scared of the stakes OP is (which I also suspect he does), I think Hero is quite likely to make a big enough mistake post-flop that pushing may well become the highest EV move.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do not really feel like getting stacked for that much though.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you ever feel this way leave any table because you aren't playing your best.
-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost agree here. There are times, though, when you might want to stay at the table because you can give up some EV to the stacks the same size as you if the shorter stacks are bad enough. Just nitpicking here, in general I agree with you.

[Jason Strasser]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on, kid, you shouldn't think that pushing is +ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK grandpa.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but what hand range will he re-raise with here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would suggest flat calling versus putting in that extra reraise for this reason.

[ QUOTE ]
I am taking post-flop into account given how scared he will be to play for his stack. If villain has a reasonable idea of his re-raising range here (and if he's not a moron I bet he does) AND a good idea of how scared of the stakes OP is (which I also suspect he does), I think Hero is quite likely to make a big enough mistake post-flop that pushing may well become the highest EV move.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably giving the villain more credit than he deserves, but I agree. I think that pushing is better than reraising less but I also think that flat calling is superior to both because Twain stays fat and happy.

I miss Ulysses,
-Jason

[Go_Blue88]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should cash out and come back in 30 minutes if you are uncomfortable with this much $ on table. As it stands, you MUST reraise to at least 1k. Trapping here is not good at all. If he's making a play with 76s, he hasn't invested TOO much preflop (25 bbs out of 800 isn't that much), if he hits a flop, you are going to be putting in 775/800 bb's in with the loser. If he has KK and an A flops, you will kill yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christ.

Are you serious?

Don't say MUST blah blah when you are playing 800bb poker. There is no must. Hero can do anything except fold here and it would be fine with few exceptions.

You also imply that if the villain has 76s and outflops AA he will get all 800bb hahaha. Im pretty sure if hero flat calls here preflop he is not tied to the pot...

Oh yeah. I also don't think a call from KK here is automatic by any stretch. So by saying 'you'll kill yourself if an A flops' I think you should be saying 'you'll kill yourself if he folds KK face up to your massive preflop overbet from a scared player'.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha cool post.

[Double Down]

The problem with pushing is that even with all of the hollywooding the world, a push by you means only 1 hand and if he has kk, going from 250 to 3.8k, he'll be able to get away. It'll be a tough decision to let the kings go, but he could probably do it. But the problem with only raising to 1k is that if he calls, a pot of 2k and he pushes you in for 2.8k on the flop might be a tough decision.

Here is how I would get his money:

I would mull it over for a couple minutes, looking somewhat pissed, even possibly mentioning to him, "I have a pair." to make it look like I am trying to "show strength." Eventually, I say with much gusto, "I reraise," and I make it 1400. There are two reasons why. First of all, with a bet like that, it screams that I like my hand and that it is strong, but that it is not aces and I want to leave myself room to escape in case he reraises me allin. So reraising to 1400 actually shows weakness because I am still not committing myself. By doing this, he has got to put me on QQ or KK, but sensing the weakness, he may fall for it and push, trying to make a move on me with AK or the other 2 queens, knowing that UNLESS I have aces, I gotta let it go, and because of the weakness I've shown (even though I've reraised) he will not think that I have the aces.
Or, he just calls the 1400 and we see a flop. If he calls, then I think that it's highly likely he has kings or ak. He wouldn't push kings, because then I would lay down my queens, and AK he might have decided the more conservative approach to call and take a flop. The 1400 is just enough for him to call and try to catch an ace or king (if he has ak and I have queens) or even just an ace (if I have kings).

Here comes the second reason for making it 1400. Now, the pot is $2800, and it is now understood that probably the rest of the money is going in on the flop, because I only have $2400 left. And unless a king comes on the flop, I think I can safely call his push or push my money in first, depending on whether he checks or pushes on the flop.

Once again, what you're really trying to sell by making it 1400 is that you have a very good hand that is NOT aces, meaning queens or kings. Sending out this fake weakness could either induce a push by him preflop OR pot commit him if he just calls. This way, even though you're playing scared, he will not be able to outplay you on the flop unless a king comes. Even if a queen comes, I think you're good, because preflop I don't think he'll call with queens. He'll either push or fold them. A queen on the flop could kill your action, because his kings will definitely not pay you off now, nor his ak, but that isn't as bad of a problem as him making a move on you. King is the only card to worry about, and with him having one or two of them, you'll be okay.

What do you guys think of this? I have used this tactic many times, doing my best to absolutely convince him that I have qq, but I reraise, making it look like I'm trying to find out where I am, planning to muck if he pushes. It has worked very well.

[Hattifnatt]

Make it $1k, if he calls. Put the rest in on a K-free flop.