M of 5.4, UTG+1, A10o, Your move = Fold/Raise/Limp/Push?

The difference between the two hands, even when broadening the calling range as far as pocket pairs go down to 7's, is about a 4% difference. vs 7's+ / AJo+ A10o is 30%, AJo is 34%. 2/2 is 35%, so if you are pushing AJo here technically you should push any pair, right?

Oh and, I don't mind the term Hijack at all, no need to hate on it, it will become part of standard accepted poker lingo thanks to its supporters soon enough, so you might as well accept it now~ [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[fnurt]

I also hate on the practice of ending sentences with ~, unless you are a Korean kid playing online video games from the cybercafe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

One reason why some people don't like to push with AT is because when you get called you are often dominated. With this in mind, maybe it would be instructive to assign a calling range, and then crunch the numbers and determine if a less-dominated hand like 98s actually comes out better.

Too much hate good sir. 9/8s actually comes out to be 33% against AJo+ / 77+ and 32% vs TT/AJo+, but like I said, 2/2 has a 38% equity against TT/AJo+ and 35% against 77+/AJo+, and if called is also very likely to be dominated, with a smaller % of win/split than a dominated ace situation.

First of all, a push with AJ is significantly less likely to be called then a push with 22. Assuming heads up against the calling range AJs+,AQo+,99+ (heads up is just to make the FE doable).

ATo:

FE = 1- (3+24+30)/(50*49) = ~97.7%
Equity = 28.9%

ATs:

FE = 1- (3+24+30)/(50*49) = ~97.7%
Equity = 32.7%

AJo:

FE = 1 - (2+24+30)/(50*49) = ~97.7% (insignificantly smaller than ATs)
Equity = 31.24% (less than ATs.. you learn something new every day)

AJs:

FE = 1- (3+24+30)/(50*49) = ~97.7%
Equity = 35.23%

89s:
FE = 1 - (4 + 32 + 33)/(50*49) = ~97%
Equity = 31.2%

22:

FE = 1 - (4 + 32 + 36)/(50*49) = ~97%
Equity = 35.5%

So, in summary, FE changes are not what I thought they'd be (they're completely insignificant because the range is broad enough to absorb them), and 22 rocks. ATs is also better than AJo, which is kinda funny.

[curtains]

This should be a fold. I've done math for these situations in the past but its too tedious for me to post. Add an ante of 50 chips and it becomes an elementary allin. Add an ante of 25 chips and it should be a clear allin also.

[curtains]

It is true, ATs is of VERY SLIGHTLY more value than AJo, although the difference is really negligible. The above sentence is when you expect to be called by all hands better than yours.

If AJo is a push in that spot, and calling range of villains is 77+ / AJo+, 22+, T9s+, and AJo+ are all push hands in this spot, if 35%ish equity is the magic number. To assume fold equity, with this range approx. chance each one of seven remaining villains has a calling hand is under 7%. If you could show me what other math factors in so I could see why 35% is the sweet spot here I would appreciate it.

I don't think I said anything about a sweet spot. I just crunched numbers and showed them. I think the most interesting thing learned is that they're all very similar.

Didn't say you did, I'm saying that if AJo is a push whereas A10o isn't, and AJo has 35% equity against expected range, with our FE here giving each villain a 7% chance of having a hand they will call with (slightly high to make up for variances in calling ranges), what constitutes 35% as being the minimal % of equity for this situation? Thats the math I wanted to see.

Was mainly talking to the AJo push A10o fold advocaters btw, I'm not sure what your opinion was. Do you push 9/10s+ 2/2+ here Curtains?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't say you did, I'm saying that if AJo is a push whereas A10o isn't, and AJo has 35% equity against expected range, with our FE here giving each villain a 7% chance of having a hand they will call with (slightly high to make up for variances in calling ranges), what constitutes 35% as being the minimal % of equity for this situation? Thats the math I wanted to see.

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Please do note that raising with something like AJo, means that it is less likely you will be called by a dominating hand than raising with something like T9s, due to the high cards in your hand.