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#21
09-23-2005, 02:40 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
i think you played it great.
i raise their preflop also. on the flop you set it up so you can put him to the test. and if behind, you are at worst a 2-1 dog (or thereabouts), with the folding equity, that is fine. I think you played it great, especially with your knowledge of your opponent. SD 
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#23
09-23-2005, 02:52 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
I don't mind the pre-flop raise at all as long as it was well-timed:
a) you've been playing pretty tight; b) you're attacking a medium stack most likely to fold PF; c) the BB is tight; d) the players left to act have been folding to pre-flop raises and aren't too loose. I think I'd prefer a check-raise to a small bet followed by a huge push. Think of it like this, you're trying to represent a big hand. But you make a small bet to make him think you're weak and then push a lot to make him think you're strong. Confusing isn't it? If he thinks you're weak because of the small bet on the flop will he all of a sudden be able to turn around and think "man, I just got trapped". I don't know. But if you check-raise, that's clearly representing a strong hand. The problem with a check-raise is that what you really want to do is push and put him to a big test. But if you check and he bets, let's say 1,000. The pot is 2,700. Will betting 7,000 look too much like you're on a draw? Yes, a good player would think that a pot sized bet is more than half your stack so it's not unreasonable to push. But you clearly don't have a monster since you wouldn't normally play a set of Ts or an overpair that way. If you bet 1,000 and he wanted to raise you, you're more than likely facing a push by him. And I'd hate to call off my stack with a 6 high flush draw. I think the play I prefer the most is to check the flop. If he checks behind you get some information and might improve on the turn. If he bets I'd probably call something reasonable, take a look at the turn, and lead out if I didn't hate it (like an A).
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#24
09-23-2005, 02:53 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Any pair calls here too. [/ QUOTE ] Do you actually beleive this? [/ QUOTE ] Let me make this clear. Any pair that called your raise preflop calls this. Like I said 77-JJ call here 100% of the time. I would even call with 44-66. Most of the time I know this kind of all in play with a uncoordinated board means a flush/straight draw overcards that missed.
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#25
09-23-2005, 02:58 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
I like the play. You are 40:60 against top pair or an overpair and have huge FE against anything else. You won't usually see somebody call a PFR with a T in their hand, and overpairs are just as likely to have re-raised PF as to have called from MP.
I think most of the time you take this down with your re-raise and you still have your 40% draw to fall back on if called. You don't need folds here too often for the play to be +EV.
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#26
09-23-2005, 02:59 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind the pre-flop raise at all as long as it was well-timed: a) you've been playing pretty tight; b) you're attacking a medium stack most likely to fold PF; c) the BB is tight; d) the players left to act have been folding to pre-flop raises and aren't too loose. I think I'd prefer a check-raise to a small bet followed by a huge push. Think of it like this, you're trying to represent a big hand. But you make a small bet to make him think you're weak and then push a lot to make him think you're strong. Confusing isn't it? If he thinks you're weak because of the small bet on the flop will he all of a sudden be able to turn around and think "man, I just got trapped". I don't know. But if you check-raise, that's clearly representing a strong hand. The problem with a check-raise is that what you really want to do is push and put him to a big test. But if you check and he bets, let's say 1,000. The pot is 2,700. Will betting 7,000 look too much like you're on a draw? Yes, a good player would think that a pot sized bet is more than half your stack so it's not unreasonable to push. But you clearly don't have a monster since you wouldn't normally play a set of Ts or an overpair that way. If you bet 1,000 and he wanted to raise you, you're more than likely facing a push by him. And I'd hate to call off my stack with a 6 high flush draw. I think the play I prefer the most is to check the flop. If he checks behind you get some information and might improve on the turn. If he bets I'd probably call something reasonable, take a look at the turn, and lead out if I didn't hate it (like an A). [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this line more than the push. Hero though just saw the flop and was determined to push no matter what. I think you have to evaluate all possible scenarios ie lead out, check, check raise. I don't like hero's line in this hand at all.
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#27
09-23-2005, 03:03 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
[ QUOTE ]
Any pair that called your raise preflop calls this. Like I said 77-JJ call here 100% of the time. I would even call with 44-66. Most of the time I know this kind of all in play with a uncoordinated board means a flush/straight draw overcards that missed. [/ QUOTE ] How often do you actually see overcards do this? And most solid players would be folding 66 here every time barring a great read on their opponent IMO.
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#28
09-23-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
yea i like it, the check-raise all in would look fishier.. it'll give the other guy worse odds but i think it seems MUCH more likely that you're on a draw... but when you 3-bet all in that seems a lot stronger and i think carries a lot more FE.
These are types of hands i misplay all the time though (or atleast i think i do) i'm never sure how to go about the tiny flush draw. But i think you took a good line here, and it's shame it didn't work (or if it did, congrats)
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#29
09-23-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
I don't really think this is the kinda play you want in this position. You have a healthy stack, so making this type of risk-reward move now is quite iffy in my opinion. He may be active, but I doubt he is donkish enough to see your raise from MP, call it, then lean on you with the reraise if he has nothing. Your read here probably got you in trouble, as he thinks you will push him off his reraise before you do. I see him calling this instantly, with you being quite far behind.
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#30
09-23-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: I have a flush draw! (Stars $300 hand)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Any pair that called your raise preflop calls this. Like I said 77-JJ call here 100% of the time. I would even call with 44-66. Most of the time I know this kind of all in play with a uncoordinated board means a flush/straight draw overcards that missed. [/ QUOTE ] I see them a lot to my surprise. An all in like this always screams weakness to me. I use to fold to all these all ins before but then one day decided I want to see whta they have so I called with something dumb like AJ. To my surprise KJ was the hand and I won a huge pot. I studied the hand and realized how often this play is used with draws and overcards. Yes sometimes I call and I am wrong. But the last couple of tourneys I have accumulated How often do you actually see overcards do this? And most solid players would be folding 66 here every time barring a great read on their opponent IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I see overcards and draws here a lot more lately. I think players are overusing the all in semibluff a lot lately. I by no means am an expert on reading people but if I was villain I call you with AK here too probably. Flame away.
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