HOH2 on continuation size bets: don't agree they should be half pot

[curtains]

HOH2 probably isnt dangerous towards ones long term results. If they are smart they will work out all the misunderstandings that they take away from the book eventually, and figure out what situations to ignore the book's advice. However it could cause some serious short term confusion.

How exactly do people generally misinterpret the concepts in HOH or HOH2? As someone who recently read both books and was really impressed, I'm concerned that I am making decisions based on misinformation. I thought I understood the concepts underlying M and Q and the rationale for the size of recommended continuation bets. Why don't I?

[curtains]

You might be fine, just some people get confused! Anyway I don't like the approach of thinking of things in terms of M+Q, it seems very cumbersome to me, however it may be the best way to get the point across to as many people as possible.

Once again, with almost any book/information source, a decent % of people will not process the information correctly. This is often not a fault of the information, but instead of the one trying to follow it.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]

All information is dangerous if you dont know how to apply it.

For instance if someone says to be very tight preflop and you go around folding QQ in absurd situations, then the information was dangerous for you.

When Harrington starts yammering on about M and Q and the like, a large percentage of people will completely misinterpret everything he's saying and start making faulty decisions based on these "M" and "Q" numbers. Then the information was dangerous for them.

Almost all good information will be misinterpreted by a good percentage of the readers, and will lead them to make plays that have no bearing on what the author was trying to say. Just look at the number of "Gigabet plays" that have been posted on this forum. Look at the examples of the "Stop and Go" that are posted and have nothing to do with the actual point of the stop+go.

It's clear that a lot of these people would have been better off if they never heard of the concepts to begin with, or at least they would have been better off for that particular hand that they posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but you also learn an awful lot by misinterpreting information, then posting it here so that everyone can tell you you are an idiot. Making mistakes is a big part of becoming a better player, as long as you learn from them no mistake is all that bad. HOH and HOHII are going to make some of the new players that read it better, even if they do make a whole bunch of mistakes and have a zillion leaks to plug before they get there.

Mack

[curtains]

Yes, as I said it may learn to short term poor results for an intelligent and hard working player. I believe I mentioned that in one of my previous posts.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, as I said it may learn to short term poor results for an intelligent and hard working player. I believe I mentioned that in one of my previous posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see this as inevitable, I have had a couple of stretches like that, usually followed by a decent improvement in my all round game. My point is I think you are right, but I don't think it matters too much if the player is doing what he should be doing (analysing his game).

Mack

[diebitter]

Does anyone here actually use Q at all in their decision-making? It's so insignificant compared to M, after all.

[rockythecat99]

I agree with Lethal Rose here. I have seen sooo many bad calls with hands because someone read a book and completely misinterpreted the material. For example just yesterday I was playing a sng and I raise on the button with AQ to 300 he miniraises me to 500 on the BB and I push. He insta calls and shows K10suited. I asked him why he didnt think about it at least for a bit before calling and he said that K10s is a group 3 hand so that it was the correct call. He had read a two plus two book and now instant calls without figuring out pot odds (which he didnt have) and figuring out my range. Also I have seen many people start pushing with M=6-8 with air misapplying HOH2. I don't mind the moves but hearing them try to justify donk moves because they "read a book" is just irritating.

Also I use to make 50% continuation bets but have found that 65% are better. Fish just don't fold enough for the 50% to be profitable at least for me.

[hurlyburly]

Ok, but can you win often enough to cover the reduced odds? 1/2 pot is a good starting point.

I agree in the earliest levels where the pot is smaller anyway a pot or 2x pot can be much more reasonable.

[hurlyburly]

How can that be when they're getting 3/1 on their call? 1/2 pot prices in some draws, prices out others.