"worst overcall I have ever seen a 2+2er make. " - Page 3

Exitonly · #21 09-13-2005, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given the table conditions I think I just fold UTG to start with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Besides this one guy, it wasn'ta carzy table, it was typical tight bubble play. I'm confident my initial raise with AJ was right... and just calling the button's all in i'm also pretty confident was the right thing.

But, i didn't think through enough what BB's range could be.. i just realized that it's a weaker than a typical reraise all-in.

Here are the ranges i came up with:

Code:<hr /><pre>
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 27.7798 % 25.74% 02.04% { AJo }
Hand 2: 42.5384 % 41.51% 01.02% { 44+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Hand 3: 29.6818 % 27.65% 02.03% { 22+, A4s+, KJs+, QJs, A7o+ }
</pre><hr />

I didn't have this at the time, and i was busy thinking that BB didn't have to be all that strong..

edit:

Just did the pot odds and such.. and iw as getting 2.1:1 on my call... and if i just pretend the button isn't in this, i'm getting the right odds to call the BB.

I'm not so sure it's so terrible afterall. a little over 2:1 is pretty good.

TomHimself · #22 09-13-2005, 06:25 PM

whos who- hand 2, hand 3?

Exitonly · #23 09-13-2005, 06:26 PM

my bad, hand 2 would be BB.
Hand 3 would be the button (maniac)

Brad F. · #24 09-13-2005, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok ok, first let me explain the table...
Button is a maniac, new to tournaments, new to poker it seemed. The whole table knew it... his KQ sucked out on AA to get him a lot of chips, and he open pushed a lot of hands... ended up getting cripled w/ A5s vs KK, and then 66 by A7. Anyway, when i bet i was hoping that he would go all in there because i knew he was crazy.... but since the whole table knew that, when BB tried to isolate, i really didn't think he was all that strong... so well i called.

I havn't done the pokerstove on this yet, but what do you guys think? Is that quote that i got from someone else accurate?

----------------

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t58016)
BB (t76996)
Hero (t97746)
UTG+1 (t120090)
MP1 (t81874)
MP2 (t188944)
MP3 (t141108)
CO (t266843)
Button (t31179)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t16000, 5 folds, Button raises to t30879, 1 fold, BB raises to t76696, Hero calls t60696.

Flop: (t186071) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)

Turn: (t186071) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)

River: (t186071) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)

Final Pot: t186071

Results in white below: 
BB has 5d 5c (one pair, fives).
Hero has Js Ah (one pair, jacks).
Button has Kh As (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins t186071. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You called with TPTK against someone who previously open pushed with A5s?? Um, I don't see anything wrong with that whatsoever.

In a normal game without reads it is an automatic fold. But chances are whoever made the comment didn't even consider the fact that you were playing the players cards not yours.

I kind of find it very strange when someone wins a big pot by making the correct call and someone says it was the worst call ever. It was obviously read based, it obviously was correct (yes, based on results but) it's not even close to worst call ever.

Speaking of sucking out on Aces with KQ, my call last night on a K-7-4 board with KQ was close to the worst call ever.... and no I wasn't the maniac in this hand as I didn't see anything even close to presentable the rest of the 100+9 last night.

Brad

TomHimself · #25 09-13-2005, 07:18 PM

Brad everything happened preflop since you didnt realize that I guess

locutus2002 · #26 09-13-2005, 07:45 PM

Interesting hand. I think its an easy call, but then again I am a donkey.

Hero can call ~T15,000 into the center pot which will be ~T100,000 and T46,000 into the side pot for T92,000 in the side pot. I estimate that hero is 20% in the center pot and 50% in the side pot which means his EV is T20,000 + T46,000 or about T66,000 so its probably EV++. (I have done the math on pokerstove to confirm my estimates below)

These are the kind of calls get you to the final table: or go broke. I probably would have opened against this BB with AJo and I would have called against his push. gh.

pokerstove.txt

61,132,886,891 games 264.640 secs 231,003,955 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 20.5810 % [ 00.19 00.02 ] { AJo }
Hand 2: 27.3672 % [ 00.26 00.02 ] { AA-55, AKs-A5s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 52.0518 % [ 00.50 00.02 ] { AA-TT, AKs-AQs, AKo-AQo }

---
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

4,068,434,304 games 12.297 secs 330,847,711 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 53.0919 % [ 00.50 00.03 ] { AJo }
Hand 2: 46.9081 % [ 00.44 00.03 ] { AA-55, AKs-A5s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-ATo, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo }

---

61,132,886,891 games 264.640 secs 231,003,955 games/sec

AtticusFinch · #27 09-13-2005, 08:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given the table conditions I think I just fold UTG to start with.

[/ QUOTE ]

KramerTM · #28 09-13-2005, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting hand. I think its an easy call, but then again I am a donkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there's a guy in this entire forum, short of David Sklansky himself, that can convince me that this is an easy call.

Exitonly · #29 09-13-2005, 08:31 PM

I wasn't claiming that it was an easy call... i was just shocked by "worst overcall ever"... after i looked at the pokerstove and the pot odds i think the call wasn't bad...

and after what the guy like 2 posts up said (going braindead can't remember username) it looks like going with my read might have been right afterall.

but it's close either way.

Piers · #30 09-13-2005, 08:47 PM

Bad call.

You need to put about 60K in to win around 190, which suggest you have to drag the pot around 31-32% of the time. You’re just not getting those odds; BB saw your raise and knows what it means. (You probably need BB to playing hands like KJo, 22, K9s)

If your AJ were suited it would be closer but I think still a fold.

[ QUOTE ]
worst overcall I have ever seen a 2+2er make.

[/ QUOTE ]

That’s being silly.