J8s 20-40 bb - Page 3

DpR · #21 09-09-2005, 02:15 AM

Isn't that almost exactly what I said?

Eric P · #22 09-09-2005, 02:16 AM

FLOP:
Checking could be worse for sure. UTG is going to bet, and if she gets raised then you can just let go. There is too much money to fold for one bet obviously, but you basically need to get runner runner or one of your five outs. I think that betting is the right play, for the above reasons (above posts, bet to get rasied) You turned part one of the runner-runner. And if you knew that was going to happen you would rather have more people in.

TURN:
C/R here seems thin on value (probably marginally correct) but if it is thin on value then it leans towards being expert. If she has a set of kings, then it leans towards being horribly bad. While I don't see this play as bad, i certainly don't make it EVERY time, but it does certainly see it's fair share. You have to make sure not to check raise this flush draw every time, people might get wise and 3-bet you more often (although i sort of take that back, because mostly people aren't very good).

I think that on the turn you can't really make a mistake as long as you don't fold. I do believe that the best line might be leading the turn though. It will either slow everyone down, or UTG will raise again, which will clearly define her hand for you (even further than it is) and if anyone else sticks around, then you have just found out you might be drawing dead either or of your draws (set/nut flush). Anyways, kind of a cool hand, i do believe the way i would play it would be:

check-call flop, bet turn-call UTG raise (if cold-called then I guess i have to call, but i figure i only win about the half the time when i hit).

What happened?

CardSharpCook · #23 09-09-2005, 02:20 AM

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Isn't that almost exactly what I said?

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Clearly we posted at the same time. at the same time. No need to go back and check the time stamp or anything.

Seriously though, right on, brother! Just missed your post.

mike l. · #24 09-09-2005, 02:23 AM

everyone called the turn c/r and the river was 2h. hero bet, utg raised, hero called and utg showed AQh.

Steve Giufre · #25 09-09-2005, 02:36 AM

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"If UTG folds and Mike decides to make a thin value bet VS one of the limpers thats another story."

just for the record i did not play this hand i just wanted to see if it tainted the replies to say that i did. i would not have checkraised the turn here although i used to all the time. im still trying to decide if it's an expert play or garbage.

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I really think it comes down to a couple things. How often she will three bet her good hands on the turn, and if you have a shot at getting her to lay down something like 1010 QQ. I think its close, but if she will only three bet with a set I do like it.

mike l. · #26 09-09-2005, 02:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I really think it comes down to a couple things. How often she will three bet her good hands on the turn, and if you have a shot at getting her to lay down something like 1010 QQ. I think its close, but if she will only three bet with a set I do like it.

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right but what about the other two players who called the flop and the turn?

Steve Giufre · #27 09-09-2005, 02:39 AM

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everyone called the turn c/r and the river was 2h. hero bet, utg raised, hero called and utg showed AQh.

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I really hate the river. I dont even know if this is a value bet or bluff into three opponents. Maybe this is one of those rare spots where his bet will get called by a worse hand and the will force a better hand from making an overcall. I doubt it though. Yuck.

mike l. · #28 09-09-2005, 02:43 AM

hero made his jack high flush and now bet the river. what's wrong with that?

Steve Giufre · #29 09-09-2005, 02:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really think it comes down to a couple things. How often she will three bet her good hands on the turn, and if you have a shot at getting her to lay down something like 1010 QQ. I think its close, but if she will only three bet with a set I do like it.

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right but what about the other two players who called the flop and the turn?

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Yeah one of them could defintely have a better hand. But as long as she doesnt three bet he is still getting 3-1 on his money with a pair and a flush draw. He doesnt have to get a better hand to fold very often for it to be right. (Very often= me being too lazy to do math.)

Steve Giufre · #30 09-09-2005, 02:52 AM

Sorry I didnt see he made it, I though he was just betting a jack. Too many beers watching the Pats tonight.