Heads up

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its a drawless board and the 9 paired. check the turn and call a river bet or valuebet if checked to.

^ if this assessment is wrong someone please explain why

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This is exactly how I wouldve played the hand, especially online where eveyone loves to be tricky

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I check this river unless I know BB is an extreme calling station.

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Agreed, It pretty much has to be someone who doesnt know how to play poker for me to bet this river

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I'm mostly an NL player, so this may be elementary, but --

why are you betting that river?

You seem to be bluffing with a hand that has showdown value.

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pure value

60vpip in limit = giant fish.

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Truth, If you knew your opponent was a fish, then why did you call the checkraise on the river?? That was a mistake on your part as it should be easy to fold to a passive person on a river checkraise, and if he is the type to make a play on you, than it was never correct to bet the river to begin with. Remember Truth, if you call a fish's raise with a margainal holding then you become the fish.

[KidPokerX]

surfdoc-
good point, i never really saw it that way.
My assumption, and maybe Mike's as well, was that a typical player with a vpip% of 60 has the tendencies to play very loose post-flop as well. Many of these players find that being aggressive post-flop is the only way to continue their fix.

[DcifrThs]

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Well said, exactly. This is why you shouldn't be freaked out by a guy who is VPIP 11 and aggro factor like 3.5. It's easy to be aggressive when you have an overpair almost every time. But if you're vpip is 5 times higher than this guy and you still have an AF of 1 - you must be in there jamming bottom pair, gutshots, etc

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James, not sure if I'm reading the last line right. Are you saying that a guy with a VPIP of 55 and AF of 1 is still doing a lot of jamming? I think if he was his AF would still be be higher than 1. You don't think so?

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i wish i was good at the search function so i wouldn't have to write this post again [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ... ohwell, i'll do it for you mike.

AF=(bet%+raise%)/(call%)

if you play 11% of your hands you will be doing probably 3x or more betting+raising than calling

if you are playing 50% of your hands, BASED ON HAND STRENGTH ALONE, you should be doing a lot more calling than betting and raising combined. but theoretically you should be doing a lot of folding postflop due to pot odds. every action that this player does that is NOT a fold influences the AF. if it =1 then they do just as much betting and raising than calling. clearly you can see that 1 here is extremely aggressive.

now back to the 11%vbpiper, if he does as much betting and raising as calling he's extremely passive, really really super passive.

got it?

Barron

[stoxtrader]

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its a drawless board and the 9 paired. check the turn and call a river bet or valuebet if checked to.

^ if this assessment is wrong someone please explain why

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this is my standard line. against a guy this bad, it's debateable whether you miss value this way, but it's still probably the way I play it.

[DcifrThs]

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ok so since i seem to see quite a few 40-60 vpips in the games i play in what would a passive AF be for those guys?

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Less than 0.5.

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i think it has to be less than that. maybe .3 or less. if they are playing more than 3x the # of hands as is "optimal" then if they do 2x the betting and raising as calling then they are still doing too much of it.

Barron

[James282]

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Well said, exactly. This is why you shouldn't be freaked out by a guy who is VPIP 11 and aggro factor like 3.5. It's easy to be aggressive when you have an overpair almost every time. But if you're vpip is 5 times higher than this guy and you still have an AF of 1 - you must be in there jamming bottom pair, gutshots, etc

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James, not sure if I'm reading the last line right. Are you saying that a guy with a VPIP of 55 and AF of 1 is still doing a lot of jamming? I think if he was his AF would still be be higher than 1. You don't think so?

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i wish i was good at the search function so i wouldn't have to write this post again [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ... ohwell, i'll do it for you mike.

AF=(bet%+raise%)/(call%)

if you play 11% of your hands you will be doing probably 3x or more betting+raising than calling

if you are playing 50% of your hands, BASED ON HAND STRENGTH ALONE, you should be doing a lot more calling than betting and raising combined. but theoretically you should be doing a lot of folding postflop due to pot odds. every action that this player does that is NOT a fold influences the AF. if it =1 then they do just as much betting and raising than calling. clearly you can see that 1 here is extremely aggressive.

now back to the 11%vbpiper, if he does as much betting and raising as calling he's extremely passive, really really super passive.

got it?

Barron

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Bookmark this reply, newbies. It perfectly summarizes how to use aggression factor as a decision making tool while playing.
-James

[mike l.]

so im 23/15/2.2 in a full game online. do i suck?

[DcifrThs]

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so im 23/15/2.2 in a full game online. do i suck?

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you play as you do live apparantly [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

id say you may be a little too loose preflop and a bit too agressive postflop if i saw those #s on a table.

you suck if you're losing money at a big rate ... if you are making a lot then this is either working for you or its an upswing and you'll come down eventually.

my guess would be you raise a little too loose im LMP and LP and maybe defend too much. blind defense that is way too loose though can up a VPIP a WHOLE lot real quick. same w/ late position play.

but that loose blind play and loose LP play may earn you much more $ than youd normally get on your monsters by non-position sensitive observers who see you show down a hand like Jxs etc...im not comfortable playin 23% of my hands in a full game. in a 1/2 blind chip structure i play about 17-18% and raise about 12% and have an AF of 2.81

-Barron