Sorry For Yet Another Dog Post

It's easy to debate these things in front of your computer, but in the turmoil of the situation, screw the dogs. If I looked at this in the sterile environment of my logical brain, maybe the dogs,but that goes out the window sometimes.

Shooby. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

In fact, if this this were studied, you might find that the logical part of the brain might not even function well enough to make this decision. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
"When you say you are going to do something you should do it. Be a man of your word, and torture the dogs. Don't make verbal contracts you can't keep."

You are joking right? If not will someone please wring his neck?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am only joking partialy. A correct response to my post was humor. Another objection of my post was force you to create another dog question. So I could laugh about it.

I've have tried to answer these dog questions to the best of my abilities. To me they are an interesting thought exercise with no correct answers. However, I am getting restless and I want to hear your point. Since I expect it to be life altering, I'm willing to wait until you find the perfect example of your point. In all the other questions you were given a choice of two "bad options" and forced to choice one. Additionally you where restricted so that you could not take any other logical 3rd action, Such as preventing both the dog and persons death. However this one you agreed and not just agreed you volunteered to get the medicine, I assume because you felt the 3 hrs was worth something otherwise you would not have got up at all. With questions so laid out and controlled, it’s important to consider as much as you know about the problem and then decide. You can't just sit around and wax about the merits of each option and never come to a conclusion. You "volunteered" to get the medicine and you are met with an obstacle. Not getting the medicine is nothing more than sloth.

If the point of all these dog posts is that people aren’t entirely logical. Then I agree with you. Logic can be very difficult concept to understand. And people untrained and inexperienced with logic will fail to grasp your point even after you make it. You will prove to them that they aren’t being logical, and then by the very nature of an illogical person will ignore that proof.

If the point of these dog posts is that an absolute morality does not exist. I say that morality is how we wish the world to be, utopia. With a God (This world is utopia) those who don’t obey and have faith in the lord are punished. And those with faith are rewarded with utopia. Without a god a utopia is still a useful idea. People that tried to answer morally discussed the value of human life. Morally diverting a bomb to kill 100 people instead of 1000 is correct. The Flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah stories are examples of these.

I guess I didn’t play the “dog game” right since all my answered are based off of how the world actually is as opposed to what the most moral answers are. Which I think is a much more important consideration when making choices.

I think somehow you want to make the point that that answering these moral questions is silly, but you have some sort of twist. We shall see.

[David Sklansky]

"If the point of all these dog posts is that people aren’t entirely logical. Then I agree with you. Logic can be very difficult concept to understand. And people untrained and inexperienced with logic will fail to grasp your point even after you make it. You will prove to them that they aren’t being logical, and then by the very nature of an illogical person will ignore that proof."

Just tonight that realization has been hitting me especially hard. It may send me back to the poker forums.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
Just tonight that realization has been hitting me especially hard. It may send me back to the poker forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frustration is usually a precursor to a breakthru. Besides what would the sponsers of Math, Science, Philosophy think. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jman28]

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It may send me back to the poker forums.

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Do it. Come on over to 1-Table Tourneys. We's good people.

[ QUOTE ]
"If the point of all these dog posts is that people aren’t entirely logical. Then I agree with you. Logic can be very difficult concept to understand. And people untrained and inexperienced with logic will fail to grasp your point even after you make it. You will prove to them that they aren’t being logical, and then by the very nature of an illogical person will ignore that proof."

Just tonight that realization has been hitting me especially hard. It may send me back to the poker forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget there may be mechanisms at work which affect the type of people responding to your posts, resulting in a disproportionate:

% People who read your posts who are illogical
% People who respond to your post who are illogical

and for other reasons maybe:

% People who are illogical

I have no right to make the choice on how long another person lives. I am merely a proxy in this case. I have volunteered to get the medicine, him and his family are expecting it, and because of this the dogs will suffer. At the end of the day, they are dogs. If I knew he would prefer the more dignified choice of dying earlier rather than causing suffering, I would not get the medicine but would return and explain the situation.

I am a vegetarian and only eat free range eggs for moral reasons, which is far more than I can say for most people who said they'd spare the dog. The amount of pain and suffering chickens, cows, pigs and like go through to end up on the dinner plate would astound most people. And yet it serves no purpose to human life other than tasting good, and is accepted by our society. In most cases the worst and unnecesary parts of it are tolerated because it saves 50c on your BBQ chicken/cut of steak. Says a lot about where society stands on issues like this.

Good question David.

[veganmav]

I am veganmav, meaning, I am vegan. I am mainly vegan because I believe that the great taste that I get from eating meat and animal products, is far outweighed by the extreme suffering that these animals go through before they become food. Given that meat and animal products are not necessary to maintain human life, I refrain from eating them.

ie: maybe some extreme animal pain is worth the extension of some mans life for some short time, but me pleasuring my mouth for some short time with meat, is deffinately not worth extreme animal pain.

[Piers]

Fred – Fetching drug.
Sally – Dying acquaintance neighbour.

Fred does not want to get medicine:

You should stick to your commitments. There are people expecting you to get it and you will be letting them down if you don’t. You never know maybe the medicine will be enough to allow Sally to make a complete recovery. Surly the lives of three dogs are worth the chance that Sally might make a complete recovery however small.

Fred wants to get the medicine:

How do you think Sally will feel when she finds out you had to torture three dogs to give here an extra couple of hours of life? Hopefully Fred or Sally’s a dog lover, which would make the argument a clincher. Also how do you know it will work anyway, chances are you will be just killing those dogs for nothing. The guy who runs this place is a charlatan, I expect you will just be getting dirty water.

The bits not in bold are extra arguments that might help Fred make the desired decision.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
"If the point of all these dog posts is that people aren’t entirely logical. Then I agree with you. Logic can be very difficult concept to understand. And people untrained and inexperienced with logic will fail to grasp your point even after you make it. You will prove to them that they aren’t being logical, and then by the very nature of an illogical person will ignore that proof."

Just tonight that realization has been hitting me especially hard. It may send me back to the poker forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe a good example for your changing axioms post?

chez