Dealing with posters.....

[DMBFan23]

if the posters have already checked, I raise lighter. if they're still left to act, then that fucks with my plans too much to get all jiggy with hands I normally wouldn't. position is good. especially with hands that aren't huge favorites preflop

[SeaEagle]

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if the posters have already checked, I raise lighter.

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If you were on the button, you'd raise any two cards, yes?

With 3.5sbs already in the pot, I agree that raising with a few more hands makes sense. I just think that EP is a little to early to be going in w/ A8s. I'd definitely be open raising this in MP2 though.

BTW, I'm not sure Ciaffone's advice is neccesarily germane to typical small stakes tables, since hero might get to see the flop for one bet. At a higher stakes table, a hand with two posters is ALWAYS going to be raised by someone PF, which makes hero's decision much more of a raise or fold situation. PP 15/30 is high enough that I would expect to see this pot raised PF at least 90% of the time.

[soweak.]

If I'm before the poster I tend to not change my starting hands. However, if my hand is a borderline raise/call hand (like KQo or KJo) I will tend to raise, because there is the extra chance I will get the poster to fold and the dead money in the pot will add a nice overlay to my hand.

Also if the poster has already checked and I'm on the button I'm raising any cards I think are playable.

[callmedonnie]

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No one's gonna like the source...but here it is:

Middle Limit Hold'em, Bob Ciaffone and Jim Brier

"There is a simple poker principle that pertains to this situation. The more money there is in the pot, the harder you fight for it......When someone posts a late position blind, if you are going to play, assuming you are the first to enter the pot, you should strain to find a raise with those hands you would normally limp. If your hand is worth playing, raise with it. If you are reluctant to raise, muck it. Consider yourself in a raise or fold situation...if there is extra blind money posted, it would be hard to find a situation where you would not prefer to bring it in for a raise. It is bad enough to let one or two people in the pot who have not even looked at their cards, let alone three people. A mere call is now inappropriate."

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I think the logic of this is very important but I think as it is presented in this book it is also too absolute. I should add that my knowledge of this book comes from this excerpt alone and some other posts that mention it. I haven't read it. Also, I don't know if "middle limit" is tackling the small stakes games that this forum is dedicated too.

What I am struggling with is balancing raising a little lighter in these spots with limping. I think any suited Ace is a good limp. Also, If A9s is usually a raise, A8 can't be all that bad, but any lower I prefer limp. What about other hands like QJs? And how do you feel about raising lighter with unsuited hands?

The way I see it, unsuited hands are going to loose value and raising lighter with them may be -EV, unless your table is so tight you only have to worry about posters (who plays these tables?). But with a suited hand we usually fold early OOP, couldn't a raise be in order to create dead $ in pot and build pot for our draws?

Going after a pot w/ more money is an important concept, but I also think that playing a suited hand OOP so that we lose the least when we miss is also important. Plus, if there is any other cognizant player at table, I doubt we are going to be able to pull the raise off all that often. And especially with all the happy callers in small stakes that are the reason we play there.

[Argus]

Although I agree with the advice that you should tighten up in front of posters in a tight, thinking game, I see frequent evidence of players who do not sufficiently defend their post. Against players who do not call with many mediocre holdings that they should see the flop with, these raises are profitable. I'll often raise a single poster with 88 or A9s, especially if I've seen them fold their post before.

However with 2 posters in a 15/30 game, chances are at least one of them knows about poker. You will get called, or perhaps 3-bet and your chance of stealing the pot preflop is low. Even if the posters don't defend, another savvy player may believe that you have loosened your standards and play to put you OOP in a medium sized pot with only a moderate holding.