In which I checkraise with undercards. - Page 3

Entity · #21 08-29-2005, 12:50 AM

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There's no legitimate hand I can put you on here, and I don't think that's difficult. I think he'd have to be an actively bad handreader for this to be good.

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I'm guessing this means that everyone here always bets these flops after being the PFR. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I usually bet these flops, but when I see a Button who coldcalls and has a flop aggression of 4, I'm willing to checkraise AK here. And I have done it before, and I will do it again. I've also done it with TT here.

Rob

timprov · #22 08-29-2005, 12:55 AM

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There's no legitimate hand I can put you on here, and I don't think that's difficult. I think he'd have to be an actively bad handreader for this to be good.

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I'm guessing this means that everyone here always bets these flops after being the PFR. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I usually bet these flops, but when I see a Button who coldcalls and has a flop aggression of 4, I'm willing to checkraise AK here. And I have done it before, and I will do it again. I've also done it with TT here.

Rob

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It takes somebody who knows you'll do that to make the bluff sensible. And of course anybody who knows you'll do that is much less likely to bet light.

admiralfluff · #23 08-29-2005, 12:57 AM

I would not checkraise that flop with AK with a loose passive in, might do it with TT, but not QQ or JJ. What is he folding for 2 bets that he would be correct to call for 1 if you have AK? If I were OTB, I would put you on either a mid-smallish pocket pair, or whiffed big A, and would call you with my pp, and raise you on the turn a lot.

Entity · #24 08-29-2005, 12:58 AM

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I would not checkraise that flop with AK with a loose passive in, might do it with TT, but not QQ or JJ. What is he folding for 2 bets that he would be correct to call for 1 if you have AK? If I were OTB, I would put you on either a mid-smallish pocket pair, or whiffed big A, and would call you with my pp, and raise you on the turn a lot.

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I really don't get why you guys keep saying what you'd do. You know what I'd do with 77 here? Well, yeah, I'd do the same thing.

But this guy _isn't_ me. And that's the crux of this play, right or wrong (probably wrong). If deathdonkey bets this flop from the Button, do you think I do anything other than checkfold QJ?

Rob

helpmeout · #25 08-29-2005, 01:10 AM

wait for the turn to checkraise it makes it much more likely that you have AK KQ or KK

otherwise just bet the flop and fold to a raise

oreogod · #26 08-29-2005, 01:10 AM

Okay. I have to go, so I dont have time to discuss this on IRC.

U mentioned u play AK this way (expecting Button to bet), as it traps more ppl, while u dont know if SB if folding or not. But Im assuming youd expect the loose passive to call your CR on the flop w/ AK. If that is so, why CR QJo?

I can see your point of CR AK here in this fashion, but I still like a CR w/ AK much better here if u know someone to your immediate left is betting here.

DeathDonkey · #27 08-29-2005, 02:25 AM

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If deathdonkey bets this flop from the Button, do you think I do anything other than checkfold QJ?

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Good to know [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

TStoneMBD · #28 08-29-2005, 02:28 AM

the problem with checkraising this flop is that its suspect. it looks like you might have given up with your crappy cards in a multiway pot and now that the aggressive player bets you decide to take a shot at him with some random cards or you think your ace high might be good. expect to be called down against ace high and expect to be raised on the turn when he has nothing.

DeathDonkey · #29 08-29-2005, 02:31 AM

If the button was a good player I would totally agree with this, but don't you think a bad tight player is going to be terrified to be CRed on this flop if he has some middle pocket pair type hand or ace high? It is the fact that the guy is tight and not the brightest that makes the line credible. That said I would have just bet and if I wanted to accomplish what he is trying to do here...CR the turn.

-DeathDonkey

deepsquat · #30 08-29-2005, 02:45 AM

If im button im prob putting you on an under pair, perhaps 88-JJ, maybe even QQ.

I really think its what hand range you put the button on thats important. No way anyone is folding a King on this board and your c/r does look pretty suss.

Coldcalling on the button could be 66-99 maybe KQs, depends on your image

Im really not sure what he wouldnt calldown with on this board???

For that reason, i dont like your c/r.

I like pf though [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]