this one felt right? was it? QTo bb against preflop poster

[nykenny]

mike,

let me take a shot. i think the limit is too low for you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

- Kenny

[Robb]

If you happen to look anything like Mike Caro then Longstreet is probably a better choice than a self-portrait. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[mike l.]

first off i like the way you write. secondly im still not quite sure what youre saying. if hold em is about making good decisions re: the odds we're offered implied and from the pot i think the flop c/r here is the right play. maybe if an ace peels on the turn ill check fold there.

anyway what you wanted me to say was this i think: ive been playing tight and nice and taking no part in any of these sorts of checkraise shenanigans. but poster wouldnt know that unless he has PV or PT or PZZ or whatever we're calling it these days because he just sat down. plus he is jerking it to price is right im pretty certain of that.

[mike l.]

are you in that video? i think i threw my copy away the last time i quit poker. darn.

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
"For instance, it might be helpful for you to add "I've check-raise bluffed 3 times in the last 20 minutes previous to this hand" or "I've only shown down monsters and people are starting to not pay me off""

ok here does this help:

"it's online so no one is paying any attention anyway. theyre all watching price is right or jerking it or surfing oot."

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahaha [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Robb]

You're getting ~ 4.33:1 if I counted right on your flop raise. You've got a BB special flop that you check-raised in a 3 handed pot. This looks like a semi-bluff or a 6/7, or mid-pair but not a monster. Is the cr in and of itself going to take the pot right there often enough to be +EV? No way. Cutoff definitely, and maybe MP is taking one off.

From there you have to hope
1) Cutoff doesn't have a hand
2) Cutoff won't call with Ace high
3) Cutoff doesn't hit his/her hand on the turn
4) You both don't hit your hand on the turn because he's probably got you outkicked

Now none of this is out of the realm of possibility - he could take one off on the flop and fold the turn. If Scotty beams you into MP's position on the flop then the cr has greater validity (though you're not limping with Q10o in MP). I think the biggie is people/Cutoff like to call down with Ace high in this spot unless the board gets scary.
___________
The second issue is people glance away from the porn to check out river hands and if you show down Q10 you have made life more difficult for yourself this session (and other sessions vs. the notetakers/dataminers at the table).
Which is fine as long as you adjust but in general....and what I was trying to say in my previous post....these plays dilute the effectiveness of your future raises/check-raises by increasing the frequency with which your opponents call. Most of my wins come from having a strong image. And if I do have a strong image then I'll attempt some of these plays. But even then, I'll do it mostly with semi-bluffs not bluffs.

But you know all this. And you probably adapt after a hand like this gets shown down. But that's why I mentioned we can only offer valuable input on these types of hands if we know your current image.
______________

And it's not our responsiblity to coddle beginning to average players because this is mid-high but those types of players will get eaten alive trying this play.

[Robb]

[ QUOTE ]
but poster wouldnt know that unless he has PV or PT or PZZ or whatever we're calling it these days because he just sat down.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know if you're being tongue in cheek but in case you're not...
PV and PT are different software. And both are valuable. I rely on it much less than most people who use it. If I've played 5 hands with someone then I'll rely more on his current image, my current image, position, and board texture than the numbers. But it's really valuable for those first few hands against unknown opponents, especially those with extreme numbers.

So if you don't have it, I would suggest you get it.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
are you in that video? i think i threw my copy away the last time i quit poker. darn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I was in a few scenes as a spectator and the lead in two scenes where I used two methods to get chips (frantically waving bills for a reload and silently trying a purchase extra without anyone seeing). One was supposed to mean loose/aggro and one was indicative of a tight shy nit or something like that.

I had to be acting because I've never been all in in a limit game and rarely used the chip runners back then for my initial load (now I do). [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[mike l.]

it's a 4 way pot not 3 way.

"these plays dilute the effectiveness of your future raises/check-raises by increasing the frequency with which your opponents call. Most of my wins come from having a strong image. And if I do have a strong image then I'll attempt some of these plays. But even then, I'll do it mostly with semi-bluffs not bluffs."

you contradicted yourself there. and youre not recognizing that this flop play here is a semibluff. maybe it's heavier on the bluff more like a semiBLUFF. anyway that's what it is.

youre right image does matter some, just not as much as in live play. i mean i get people calling me down with 55 and A4 on a KQxxx board after ive played no hands for 4 rounds.
i mean if theyre going to do that than theyre going to do that, image be damned.

[mike l.]

i have it. i wouldnt play without it.