Terroist...........Freedom fighters

[zipo]

>>If I think your thinking is similar to Hitler I should be allowed to express that opinion. <<

OK, fair enough.

In that vein, your comparing my thinking to Hitler's is something that only an idiot would do. A real idiot.

Hey, mmmm was right - this does make for better dialog.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
How any reasonable person could fail to recognize this as a problem incomprehensible. Various arguments to justify, excuse, or rationalize these murders based on some notion of cultural relativism is simply absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

To a point I agree, what i find equally absurd is the notion that democratically elected governments can kill civilians, committ torture and carry out other abuses in the name of the people who elected them, without those members of the electorate deserving a large portion of the same treatment from those who had to bury members of their family due to the way you cast your ballot.

Do you not agree, we are responsible for the actions of our governments in democracies?

Regards Mack

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
>>If I think your thinking is similar to Hitler I should be allowed to express that opinion. <<

OK, fair enough.

In that vein, your comparing my thinking to Hitler's is something that only an idiot would do. A real idiot.

Hey, mmmm was right - this does make for better dialog.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least I have explained the similarities of your thinking to that of Hitler, that requires a higher level of intelligence than an idiot would have.

[zipo]

>>To a point I agree, what i find equally absurd is the notion that democratically elected governments can kill civilians, committ torture and carry out other abuses in the name of the people who elected them, without those members of the electorate deserving a large portion of the same treatment from those who had to bury members of their family due to the way you cast your ballot.<<

If you are saying that attacks on American civilians by islamic terrorists are justified because of civilian casualties suffered by Iraqis or the abuses of prisoners at places like Abu Graeb, the only proper response is to be absolutely appalled that you would support terrorism against American or other coaltion civilians. I can only hope that I somehow misconstrued your comment, and that you are not actually suggesting what it appears that you are suggesting.

>>o you not agree, we are responsible for the actions of our governments in democracies?<<

Yes. And I am apalled and outraged that the sadistic abuses and Abu Graeb were not vigorously prosecuted further up the chain of command, for example.

But if you are suggesting that those abuses (and the failure to sufficiently prosecute the perpetrators) justify terror attacks against civilians, then we have a difference of opinion much too far apart to be reconciled by any kind of discussion or debate.

[zipo]

>>At least I have explained the similarities of your thinking to that of Hitler, that requires a higher level of intelligence than an idiot would have. <<

Not really.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. And I am apalled and outraged that the sadistic abuses and Abu Graeb were not vigorously prosecuted further up the chain of command, for example.


[/ QUOTE ]

Okay you seem like a reasonable chap, making scapegoats of low level troops is nothing but a meaningless propaganda exercise, real justice is needed for those crimes, not window dressing.

Do I think terrorism is justified, no is the answer, it isn't okay to kill Iraqis to improve our standard of living either, or to pretend the reasons for doing so are noble.

Mack

[zipo]

>>Do I think terrorism is justified, no is the answer,<<

I'm reassured. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

>> it isn't okay to kill Iraqis to improve our standard of living either, or to pretend the reasons for doing so are noble.<<

Well, I wouldn't agree that that is the reason we are killing Iraqis. However, I do agree that our reasons for being in Iraq are not primarily altruistic or 'noble', contrary to the insipid rhetoric about 'freedom' and 'democracy' that keeps getting crammed down our throats by the White House and 10 Downing.

To be fair I think it's important to acknowledge that much of the carnage in Iraq right now isn't the sole fault or responsibility of the Americans and British. There are many other actors in that theatre strenuosly working to thwart any kind of stability in Iraq and these forces (e.g. islamic jihadis, Iran, Syria, etc.) aren't acting out of 'nobility' either, and have much greater disregard for human life on the whole than the allied coalition.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
what i find equally absurd is the notion that democratically elected governments can kill civilians, committ torture and carry out other abuses in the name of the people who elected them, without those members of the electorate deserving a large portion of the same treatment from those who had to bury members of their family due to the way you cast your ballot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely don't agree with this. And even if one does agree with this, what about when an election is decided on a thin margin?

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely don't agree with this. And even if one does agree with this, what about when an election is decided on a thin margin?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry MMMMMM we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. If people see something wrong going on, then they have a duty to complain to their elected representative, and try to make it stop.

Regards Mack

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what i find equally absurd is the notion that democratically elected governments can kill civilians, committ torture and carry out other abuses in the name of the people who elected them, without those members of the electorate deserving a large portion of the same treatment from those who had to bury members of their family due to the way you cast your ballot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely don't agree with this. And even if one does agree with this, what about when an election is decided on a thin margin?



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry MMMMMM we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. If people see something wrong going on, then they have a duty to complain to their elected representative, and try to make it stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what if they do complain, and march in the streets, and that doesn't stop it?

By your line of reasoning, the protestors are just as responsible and therefore deservant of a terrorist attack as the supporters, as long as the supporters' candidate won the vote by a 1% margin.

I'm getting the impression you may not have fully considered the ramifications of what you're suggesting.