Gas Prices

[coffeecrazy1]

I'm flaming because I don't make a lot of money, and I shouldn't have to compromise in other areas of my life for gas prices. I felt the same way about my cell phone bill, so I got another provider. I don't have that option with gasoline beyond a few cents of difference.

I have avoided making any reference to this up until now, but I have to say: I felt the same way as you did when I was 18. I am just now out of school, and paying my own bills for the first time...your perspective changes quite a bit when you realize that two day's wages will be spent paying to get you to the job(which is mostly where I go).

It's not that I'm not frugal...I'm actually living well beneath my means and will end up saving between $6k and 10k this year, despite only earning around $35k. I don't like having my savings cut into with things I can't control.

[DVaut1]

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Everyone is overreacting, I'm sure there are things in your life where you could save that $18 a month your loosing on paying extra for gas.

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I think the increased gas prices (let's say the increases which have occurred over the last 5 years) are costing people alot more than $18 a month.

I'm going to pick some numbers; I have no idea if they're truly accurate - I think they're close, though:

Gas circa 2000: $1.50/gal
Gas now: $2.50/gal

Consider an average car with an average gas tank. I know little about automotives, but I think the average gas tank holds something like 15 gallons. I don't know about others, but I fill my gas tank about once a week:

2000: $1.50 (cost) x 15 (gallons) x 4 (weeks/mnth) = $90
2005: $2.50 (cost) x 15 (gallons) x 4 (weeks/mnth) = $150

Over the course of a year, that's $720 more the average person is paying for gas now than they were in 2000. Factor in a 2nd auto, and the average married couple/family is paying almost $1500 more a year now than they were in 2000 - this is a substantial amount of money for most people, IMO.

My sincerest apologies if someone thinks I've overestimated here - I did absolute no research.

[AndysDaddy]

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How much of this increase since 1970 is due to more stringent fuel emissions standards in California. My understanding is that California has the highest gasoline prices in the country because of their more stringent emissions standards.

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The extra emissions standards have had almost no effect on this latest run-up (over the last two years). Any cost increase was in place before this started. Also, in general, California may be the most expensive gas in the country, but right now for instance, I can't pay less than 2.78/gallon for regular. A quick search shows prices in Los Angeles to be considerably lower.

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Now if we're talking about a barrel of light sweet crude oil then my understading is that to reach an inflation adjusted high it would have to go to $90 a barrel.

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Well, here is at least one source that disputes this often-made claim.

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So what would you propose doing to improve the situation?

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I'm not so much complaining about the cost as I am about various politicos trying to tell me that it is not expensive. Its the never ending barage of "shut up and take it" from the right that I object to.
--
Scott

[MtSmalls]

Actually, the US. CAFE standards could be raised tomorrow without too much impact on Ford or GM. GM currently makes the most popular VAN in China. It gets 43MPG in the city. It's not sold in the U.S., because the horsepower is so low, the acceleration is something like 0-50 in 15 seconds, instead of 9... but do we really need that??

[FishHooks]

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I think the increased gas prices (let's say the increases which have occurred over the last 5 years) are costing people alot more than $18 a month.

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I agree but we were talking about the last year alone.

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I'm going to pick some numbers; I have no idea if they're truly accurate - I think they're close, though:

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I would agree those are fairly accurate.




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2000: $1.50 (cost) x 15 (gallons) x 4 (weeks/mnth) = $90
2005: $2.50 (cost) x 15 (gallons) x 4 (weeks/mnth) = $150


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However if you take into account inflation, I'll use 2% a year, that $90 in 2000 becomes $100 in 2005 so you have to account for that. Now 50 x 12 is $600, while $600 a year is a lot, back in 2000 when gas prices were very very low its hard to compare it to that. A good analgy would be intrest rates in 2000 at 1% compared to the rates today at 4%, while they have quadrupled, they are still historically low intrest rates, which is basically the same situation as gas is in. While they are getting high it's on par with the average (accounted for inflation) as prices have normally been.

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Actually, the US. CAFE standards could be raised tomorrow without too much impact on Ford or GM. GM currently makes the most popular VAN in China. It gets 43MPG in the city. It's not sold in the U.S., because the horsepower is so low, the acceleration is something like 0-50 in 15 seconds, instead of 9... but do we really need that??

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Yeah, I'd like to get to 50 mph in faster than 15 seconds. Is that a joke? I don't like 0-60 to be slower than 9.

[adios]

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The extra emissions standards have had almost no effect on this latest run-up (over the last two years). Any cost increase was in place before this started.

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You sidestepped my question. Since 1970 is what I asked, you brought out the table to prove a point and I'm asking you about what the data means.

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Also, in general, California may be the most expensive gas in the country, but right now for instance, I can't pay less than 2.78/gallon for regular. A quick search shows prices in Los Angeles to be considerably lower.

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Ok but are you trying to claim that since 1970 clear air standards haven't added anything to the price of gasoline? I don't think so.

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Well, here is at least one source that disputes this often-made claim.

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It looks like prices peaked in 1981 according to your graph. I've seen the figure at $90 but neither one of us is stating that oil is a bargain. I'll try and dig up a counter source and analyze it with the inflation rates and prices from yesteryear.

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I'm not so much complaining about the cost as I am about various politicos trying to tell me that it is not expensive. Its the never ending barage of "shut up and take it" from the right that I object to.

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Ok fair enough. I think we should also recognize that the clean air that we all want (I haven't heard anyone state that they don't want clear air) comes at a price.

I hate how we seem to be over a barrel (pardon the pun) and I really would like to see that change. Don't know how it can be done without a lot of pain though as I'm willing to accept some pain but would like to see an energy policy that's equitable at least how I perceive equitable. Perhaps an energy policy isn't needed but I would think so.

[adios]

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GM currently makes the most popular VAN in China. It gets 43MPG in the city. It's not sold in the U.S., because the horsepower is so low, the acceleration is something like 0-50 in 15 seconds, instead of 9... but do we really need that??

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This is an excellent point but I think they make manufacture these vehicles in China no? If so I don't think we'll see that change and I think it will be probably cost auto workers jobs in the U.S. Not sure about that.

[adios]

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Actually, the US. CAFE standards could be raised tomorrow without too much impact on Ford or GM. GM currently makes the most popular VAN in China. It gets 43MPG in the city. It's not sold in the U.S., because the horsepower is so low, the acceleration is something like 0-50 in 15 seconds, instead of 9... but do we really need that??

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Yeah, I'd like to get to 50 mph in faster than 15 seconds. Is that a joke? I don't like 0-60 to be slower than 9.

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Which points out a problem. A lot of consumers don't want the less powerful vehicles even though they don't need more powerful ones.

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Actually, the US. CAFE standards could be raised tomorrow without too much impact on Ford or GM. GM currently makes the most popular VAN in China. It gets 43MPG in the city. It's not sold in the U.S., because the horsepower is so low, the acceleration is something like 0-50 in 15 seconds, instead of 9... but do we really need that??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'd like to get to 50 mph in faster than 15 seconds. Is that a joke? I don't like 0-60 to be slower than 9.

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Which points out a problem. A lot of consumers don't want the less powerful vehicles even though they don't need more powerful ones.

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First of all, I don't like the high gas prices either. But I understand the economic concepts behind the prices and I know that it will only get worse. Still, I derive enjoyment from driving fast cars that get worse MPG than Corollas and Escorts, and I refuse to drive a tiny 4 cylinder car.