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#1
08-13-2005, 06:33 PM
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Re: atheistic morality
[ QUOTE ]
You tell me. Certainly not on god's. [/ QUOTE ] Certainly on God's. [ QUOTE ] Christians don't believe that if they do the right thing they'll go to heaven and if they don't they'll go to hell? [/ QUOTE ] Christians believe that salvation is by grace through faith. 
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#2
08-13-2005, 03:01 PM
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Re: atheistic morality
"What is morality other than doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do? What would believing in God or a god have to do with that?"
What makes something right? Is it odd that just about every civilization throughout history has had basically the same set of values. (Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, do unto others, etc.) It's as if there is some prevalent standard that pre-exists. See the first chapter of MERE CHRISTIANITY by C.S. Lewis for a great discussion of this.
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#3
08-13-2005, 03:50 PM
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Re: atheistic morality
[ QUOTE ]
What makes something right? Is it odd that just about every civilization throughout history has had basically the same set of values. (Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, do unto others, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] not any odder then every civilization having a specific creation story. or stone tools and fire for that matter. maybe language is a better example. i dont think anyone claims that language is in and of itself some great objective truth, just a mechanism that allows humans to thrive.
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#4
08-14-2005, 01:10 AM
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Re: atheistic morality
"maybe language is a better example. i dont think anyone claims that language is in and of itself some great objective truth, just a mechanism that allows humans to thrive."
Yeah, but languages vary among societies. Values don't. Every major civilization has had the same fundamental value for their set of laws: Don't be unselfish.
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#5
08-13-2005, 03:52 PM
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Re: atheistic morality
[ QUOTE ]
Is it odd that just about every civilization throughout history has had basically the same set of values. (Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, do unto others, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] Is it odd that the members of just about every civilization throughout history have had basically the same anatomical traits -- five fingers on each hand, a spleen, etc.? I don't think either one is odd. They're exactly what you'd expect within an evolutionary framework.
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#7
08-14-2005, 03:15 AM
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Re: atheistic morality
" "surely most atheists cannot believe in an absolute and objective morality??" Why not? What is morality other than doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do? What would believing in God or a god have to do with that?" Well, first we need to define what absolute morality means. My understanding is that this language refers to an overarching, perfect and just standard that APPLIES EQUALLY TO ALL PEOPLE. Such a standard 'absolutely' (forgive me!) cannot make any sense in an atheistic world. Instead, the exact opposite is true; each person is free to subjectively determine their own reality. It is ridiculous to say 'do the right thing b/c it is the right thing to do' in a world w/ no God, and thus consequently world that cannot possibly have 'right' and wrong things to do. To you, it may be right to kill everyone over 6 feet tall. I believe we should not. THERE CAN BE NO STANDARDS.
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#10
08-16-2005, 07:32 AM
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Re: atheistic morality
I agree. That is what atheists argue- the community determines the standard. My point, though, is that the community cannot 'determine' absolute truth. If Nazi Germany declares that killing jews is wrong, well then killing jews is wrong. that is the community standard. my contention, which i believe to be consistent with Christian theism, is that killing jews unjustly is always wrong in all places and all times, despite whatever a Nazi community in Germany 'determines'.
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