The Great Debate, PTB vs A. Fox Starts Here

[andyfox]

"Many people have personal experience with something they call God. I think that similiarly contributes to our understanding of reality."

You had me until these sentences. As if on cue, at lunch today a gentleman with whom I had been talking while we were placing our orders, now sitting at the table next to me, lowered his head, closed his eyes, and was evidently praying when his food arrived. He prayed for about 20 seconds. Then he opened his eyes, wiped off his silverware and commenced his meal. Evidently he did not pray for clean utensils.

But what was he praying for? Maybe for nothing. Maybe he was thanking god for the food and for his station in life. But wasn't he really talking to himself? It's obvious to me that god exists only in the minds of those who thinks he does. Wasn't what he was doing a sort of mental exercise to make himself feel good?

I'm not quite sure what this personal exercise contributes to our understanding of reality. Just because a person calls this experience something that involved god doesn't make it so. Of the other things you cited, I love music, art, films and comedy; I like poetry and theater; and have no use for philosophy or religion. I think perhaps the difference between the ones I love, the ones I like, and the ones that are uninteresting to me is the degree of, for lack of a better word, reality that they invoke. While there are exceptions and I'm talking in general terms, theater and poetry tend to be more touchy-feely, more experimental and less prone to clarity than the other arts, or at least in the forms that I like (which, in music and art, tend towards 19th century romanticism--hmm . . .). I mean, when I read the New Yorker, I generally hate or am bored by the poetry and love the cartoons. I usually prefer to see a movie than go to the theater because the theater is too, well, theatrical. When my wife tells me that so-and-so if very spiritual, I wanna puke. But maybe that's just me.

From your posts in this "debate," I agree with David: if there is indeed a heaven, you will be there.

[PairTheBoard]

Andy Fox --
"From your posts in this "debate," I agree with David: if there is indeed a heaven, you will be there. "

I hope that does not preclude the poker game in hell I'm looking forward to having with David.


Andy Fox --
"It's obvious to me that god exists only in the minds of those who thinks he does. "

I might romantically say "minds and hearts", possibly the profoundest place of all.

PairTheBoard



A special thanks to David Sklansky [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for his most generous contributions to Cancer Research at Cedars-Sinai and the Hackensack NJ Medical Center.

[andyfox]

"A special thanks to David Sklansky for his most generous contributions to Cancer Research at Cedars-Sinai and the Hackensack NJ Medical Center."

Ditto.

[David Sklansky]

Ok. Fine, fine. Your welcome. Enough already. Did you read this?

Andy Fox --
"It's obvious to me that god exists only in the minds of those who thinks he does. "

I might romantically say "minds and hearts", possibly the profoundest place of all.

PairTheBoard

Now get to work.

[RJT]

Pair,

You wrote:

“I hope that does not preclude the poker game in hell I'm looking forward to having with David.”

Wouldn’t this be redundant?

RJT

[David Sklansky]

After his "beyond blasphemy" post, normal hell, where I'll be, is no longer in the cards for him. It will be either the hole with no visitors allowed. Or perhaps there is a whole different facility. Maybe Not Ready knows.

By the way is beyond blasphemy as bad as blaspheming the Holy Ghost or whatevevr sin that is that can't be forgiven? Seems like a contradiction there. Maybe Not Ready was exaggerating, made up his own figure of speech, and PTB can still join me.

[andyfox]

Yes, I read it. But I'm really out of my metier here. I was going to ask him if he thought god was in Osama Bin Laden's heart, but it doesn't seem he's a hardcore religious fanatic. (I mean Pair the Board, not OBL.) The guy who claimed St. Francis levitated was more fun. And Not Ready. And the guy who says atheists can't be moral. Pair the Board's too normal to think that way.

I think I'm done here. You should continue the debate with him. Unless you have something more specific you want from me. Sorry I wasn't able to make this a better debate.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna send $500 to your charity.

[ QUOTE ]
I think there are a lot of things that can motivate people to living good lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think there needs to be a motivation?

[PairTheBoard]

Andy Fox --
"I was going to ask him if he thought god was in Osama Bin Laden's heart, "

I am very fond of the saying attributed to Jesus,

"You will know them by their fruits"

PairTheBoard

[BluffTHIS!]

See David, the real reason this debate wasn't more interesting is that PTB just makes lots of short dilettantish, skeptical comments regarding relgion, and isn't particularly religious. He likes to take a smattering of Jesus' sayings that he agrees with as part of an overall humanistic philosophy, but really doesn't believe any of the foundational tenets of Christianity. For all intents and purposes he is an agnostic and thus there isn't really a large gap between his and andy's thinking. At the most his beliefs would be compatible with Unitarianism, which I don't consider truly a Christian denomination.

You missed the boat David. This should have been a debate between andy and NotReady.