Little Evidence =Evidence?

[kyleb]

[ QUOTE ]
There are documented cases of levitation by hatha yogi masters who focus this energy, chi, prana masterfully.

[/ QUOTE ]

No there are not.

[prana]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are documented cases of levitation by hatha yogi masters who focus this energy, chi, prana masterfully.

[/ QUOTE ]

No there are not.

[/ QUOTE ]

really???????? Yes there are.

here's just one not to mention non yoga Christian St Francis of Assisi was seen levitating during medation(prayer) many times.

http://www.naruse-yoga.com/levitation.html [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]


I heard of a group of buddhists that did seminars in the past showing this phenomen also.

[kyleb]

These are faked. There are people paying millions of dollars for demonstrations of supernatural abilities and not one person has come forth with their "levitating" skills. The simple truth is that these events have never been recorded by credible scientists.

[David Sklansky]

"And you are making an erroneous assumption here. Namely that the only reason people 100+ years ago believed in God was that they ascribed all such then scientifically unexplained phenomena to a direct divine cause, and that such was the basis of their faith."

I did not make that asumption. This thread is about one thing only. Namely that the argument that some religious people make regarding the lack of obvious miracles is erroneous. (My comment to Not Ready, that there are no miracles, was off the cuff and was inserted just to make sure that new readers realize that I personally consider this subject academically intersting only.)

[prana]

[ QUOTE ]
These are faked. There are people paying millions of dollars for demonstrations of supernatural abilities and not one person has come forth with their "levitating" skills. The simple truth is that these events have never been recorded by credible scientists.

[/ QUOTE ]

since evidence is the title of the post show some instead of just making a claim that they are fake. I find no evidence refuting this claim. Does someone who reached this state even necessarily care about money. I don't think any enlightened person including buddhists, saints, etc care little about money or they wouldn't be enlightened. It's something they seperate themselves from early in their practices. Just saying this makes no justification in this being false at all.

[kyleb]

The fact of the matter is that there are no recorded events of this nature happening in front of credible scientists, therefore to conclusively say this is the truth is a blantant lie.

Also, you are committing a logical fallacy by stating that "since you cannot disprove it, then it is real." See also:

Since I cannot disprove the existance of God, then surely he must exist.

Since I cannot disprove the existence of tiny pink elephants in my carpet that cannot be viewed by an electron microsope , they must exist.

Since I cannot prove alien intelliegence does not exist, then they must.

[prana]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact of the matter is that there are no recorded events of this nature happening in front of credible scientists, therefore to conclusively say this is the truth is a blantant lie.

Also, you are committing a logical fallacy by stating that "since you cannot disprove it, then it is real." See also:

Since I cannot disprove the existance of God, then surely he must exist.

Since I cannot disprove the existence of tiny pink elephants in my carpet that cannot be viewed by an electron microsope , they must exist.

Since I cannot prove alien intelliegence does not exist, then they must.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's pretty funny, except i'm not showing you evidence for aliens, pink elephants, or the existence of God. You're speaking heresay about other topics. What I have shown you is a website documenting this phenomenon. I have given you material evidence which should be able to be disproven if it is indeed false.


From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_levitation

Controlled experiments into levitation

"The only very compelling and thorough case of controlled scientific tests recently was that of Nina Kulagina, a Russian 'psychokinetic', in the 1960s. She demonstrated the power to levitate small objects repeatedly in conditions which satisfied Russian, Czech and American scientists, although she never levitated herself. She levitated objects such as table tennis balls, wine glasses and matches, in conditions engineered to make the use of hidden magnets, wires and such like impossible."

although not levitating herself, I think this shows that none of this is a BLATANT lie and "credible scientists" have documented these phenemenon, again you're either wrong here or arguing without any source of information to prove your statements when I have shown two different sources of information to further validate my claim. If you want to get into critical thinking your argument does neither of these:

there are good reasons to believe the premises are true
the argument is valid or strong
the premises are more plausible than the conclusion

"credible scientific experiment" doesn't pass any of these tests really plus I just showed you "credible scientific experiment" documented about levitation of objects although not persons themselves.

[David Sklansky]

"Why do you think God's miracles are unlcear? Why do you think He uses miracles to test faith?"

I'm saying present day miracles are unclear. And I was arguing AGAINST those who says he uses them to test faith.

"In the Bible miracles always accompanied God's Word. They were used to attest to either God Himself or His messengers. That was their purpose. He left no doubt about Who was doing the miracle. I don't believe that kind of miracle occurs today because His Canon is closed. I think the next Biblical-type miracle will occur when the Lord returns. So your point about "miracles" of today is irrelevant."

Not surprisingly you used an argument that is not so easy to pick apart. Of course by using this argument you must concede that people are almost certainly wasting their time when they pray for spontaneous remission of melanoma.

"I will accept this description of myself the day you prove miracles can't happen and the day you demonstrate how something accidentally creates itself out of nothing."

I will rescind the description the day you acknowledge a position along the lines of "while God creating the universe seems logical and likely, there is nothing to suggest he gets involved with us now and whether and how he got involved in biblical times is not at all clear"

[David Sklansky]

"think that the discussion you create is a good one, but the condescending way in which you say, how are others so stupid to not agree, does not help your argument AGAINST close-minded religous folk that differ from your opinion."

Believe it or not I am not trying to be condescending. Nor do I think I have much chance to persuade those who you speak of. However I think it is important to state my position that this subject is not in the category of one where both sides of the issue are somewhat reasonable. It is completely UNREASONABLE for any specific religion to believe that the details they say are true make sense to an objective observer. By "make sense" I mean that it is more likely to be true than not based on the facts we know.

And if it is completely unreasonable to think that, what can we say about those who do?

[prana]

[ QUOTE ]
The simple truth is that these events have never been recorded by credible scientists.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
The fact of the matter is that there are no recorded events of this nature happening in front of credible scientists, therefore to conclusively say this is the truth is a blantant lie.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong, see above and do your research before talking about something you weren't even able to bring proof to and apparently know nothing about. Your talk about subjects without doing the research just makes for horrible arguments like those given above and ruins any progression this discussion may have.