The 3 things that piss me off about the conflict

[brad]

u really come off as crybaby in a lot of your posts

[El Dukie]

Ray,

With all due respect, as a Reservist and former active-duty officer, I suspect that most of my fellow military members would be extremely offended at being characterized as "mercenaries." That's one of the terms that the Iraqi regime reportedly used at the outset to describe the American troops -- the implication being that our forces, if captured, would not be treated as PoWs...

We do believe in what we're doing. Now more than ever. It may be a grim view of things, but most of us believe there are bad people in this world, and that some of us need to work to stop them. We're saddened to some extent that not everyone sees things with the same clarity we do, but we don't demand that everyone agree with us. We're quite willing to defend other people's right to protest against the actions that we take to preserve their liberty. But it'd be awfully nice if, every now and again, those same people demonstrated a little appreciation for the fact that their freedom to protest has been paid for, and at this very moment is continuing to be paid for, by the blood of our brothers, sisters, and forebearers.

[Josh W]

Seriously...Pissed off. This isn't some "poker doesn't really matter" post.

But, relax....

I'm mad at myself. I was away for a few days, got home, and looked back at some of the crap I wrote...

Clark, I apologize mostly to you. Why I started trying to pick on you, I'll never know. I don't know you, your name doesn't offend me, your word choice doesn't upset me, but I started nit-picking everything you said.

And I'll be honest...you showed a hell of a lot more patience than many (any?) other people would.

A lot of my closest friends and family members have been worried about me 'cracking' recently. But screw that. I don't throw out any excuses or weak reasons. I screwed up. Repeatedly. For no good reason.

I screwed up, and I'm sorry. I'll try to refrain from doing this in the future.

Best of luck....but, damn, I wish 'zaga woulda made the 5 foot leaner at the end of 2OT...

Josh

[Clarkmeister]

Josh,

Don't worry about it. Thanks for the kind words, however. Hope you havd a fun and profitable Vegas trip.

[TimTimSalabim]

Pacifism does not lead to peace? Ever heard of Ghandi?

And how many wars have we had to end all wars? I've lost count.

[Josh W]

Yeah, I've heard of Ghandi...so what? Are you saying he was passive? He'd say he was active.

He certainly was NOT violent, but he was not passive. Big, albeit subtle, difference.

As for "wars to end all wars"....I did not mean to imply that a 'victory' in Iraq would ensure peace throughout the world for the rest of eternity....I merely meant that it would to say that it would create a more peaceful environment in the region for the next generation (or more).

Josh

[nicky g]

Er... He's saying he was a pacifist.

[IrishHand]

Explain to me how the war with Iraq will create a more peaceful Middle East, since to most people, that's a contradiction in terms at least as applies to the present, with no evidence to support your application to the future.

[Michael Davis]

The problem is that the war in Iraq does not in any way "defend my right to protest" or "my freedom."

Ray's point, I think, is that it doesn't matter what soldiers think about the war. They aren't paid to cogitate about the validity of a particular action. They are to do what they are told, and in this respect those of us against the war should not despise them.

I, for one, think that just following orders and committing atrocities is always worthy of scorn. I don't have much respect for mindless soldiers who are just doing their job. I certainly hope they make it out alive, the same way I hope the civilians do.

-Mike

[IrishHand]

I understand your perspective, but I think it's a bit ill-informed.

[i[Soldiers] are to do what they are told, and in this respect those of us against the war should not despise them.[/i]
Completely true - directing anger towards the common soldier because of a disenchantment with a nation's military policies is both pointless and insulting to those who decided to devote some portion of their lives to the service of their nation.

I, for one, think that just following orders and committing atrocities is always worthy of scorn.
There's a very fine line between "following orders and committing atrocities" and "following orders which fulfill a vital and legitimate military interest." War has a way of blurring that line to a very high degree - does dropping a bomb on an armaments factory and killing the 200 civilians working therein constitute an atrocity or a legitimate military action? How about shooting surrendering soldiers because the enemy repeatedly uses this ploy to launch surprise attacks? What about letting a couple thousand enemy POWs starve to death because you're short of food and direct all that food to the sustenance of your own troops? How about letting those POWs die from exposure because you have neither the manpower nor the resources to build a reasonable camp? I only mention these examples because often what can appear to be an atrocity is actually a necessary and unfortunate consequence of being in a state of war.

I don't have much respect for mindless soldiers who are just doing their job.
So I take it you'd have more respect for intelligent soldiers who choose not to do their jobs? You wouldn't have any soldiers to worry about before long if that's the case. Our military, like every other, is based on a chain of command. If one link in that chain breaks, the chain ceases to function as a useful tool, and so does the army. I've long held that in a military situation, it is almost never correct to hold a subordinate responsible for following legal orders ("Hey - shoot that guy because he's got blue hair" isn't a legal order). Of course, in order for that to work, you have to have superior officers willing to accept responsibility for their orders, something which hasn't always happened in the US military.

Don't get me wrong - I understand where you're coming from, and I suspect I share those values. I just don't think they apply to the military in the nice, easy way that you (and many others) would like.

Irish