the amount of cheating in poker

[Schmed]

I would say don't get drunk when you play but a drink or two wont do anything but maybe make you a little more relaxed

[rkiray]

Sorry Mason,

I think you need to read the post a little more closely. Yes the poster said it was everywhere, but was rare. His views appeared like common sense to me. I think you mixed up his ideas with someone else's. The earlier poster was correct. You have the logical inconsistencies in this thread. (Perhaps you were in a hurry).

Rick

[RiverMel]

Poster said: I refuse to believe that every poker game I sit in is 100% clean 100% of the time, no matter what the limit or the place.

Mason said: As I have told other people in the past, if you feel this way, then you should absolutely never sit in a poker game.

It sounds like from this response that you indeed were saying that if anyone was suspicious of any cheating then they should never play. (Perhaps only because the excerpt you chose was only claiming that he believed that not all games are always clean).

[Josh W]

Mason -

You quoted the following in:

I refuse to believe that every poker game I sit in is 100% clean 100% of the time, no matter what the limit or the place.

then replied with:

As I have told other people in the past, if you feel this way, then you should absolutely never sit in a poker game.


All that D.J. was saying was "there is some game, somewhere, that is not 100% clean, at some point in time". It's right there. And you say that people who feel this way shouldn't play poker.

As such, the ONLY people who should EVER, according to you, play poker, are people who think that poker is 100% clean 100% of the time.

So again I ask, why the need to be 'vigilant' about maintaining a clean game if you (a hypothetical person who takes a great leap of faith that games are always clean) are certain that there is never any cheating?

And the reason I'm pursuing this with you is because I am curious. I am not suspicious whenever I sit down...the only thing I usually check out is if people are trying to short the pot...though I'm usually aware of tons. Does it get to the point where you are confident of the competency of the dealers, or do you remain on the lookout at all times when playing in your normal games?

Regards,

Josh

[Josh W]

Sorry Mason, I hadn't seen your above response to Dan S.

Although I still am curious what degree (if it can be quantified) you remain vigilant.

Josh

[Mason Malmuth]

I think you need to read the whole post. I certainly did not read it the way you are.

MM

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Josh:

You wrote:

Does it get to the point where you are confident of the competency of the dealers, or do you remain on the lookout at all times when playing in your normal games?

I laughed when I read that sentence. While dealers are getting better, there are still too many that are not competent. And many of the competent ones are only competent some of the time and don't pay attention much of the rest of the time. So I do try to pay attention, and so should you.

Best wishes,
mason

[D.J.]

Once again Dan backs up my statements w/ a very valid analogy and one that I can most definitely relate to. Cheating in some way or form is going to occur, there's not much one can do about it. Dan brings up the point about steroids in sports, being that sports is my profession, this is pretty important stuff. I KNOW that I have/will face pitchers who use steroids, I KNOW that I have/will compete w/ guys on my team and other teams that use unfair advantages, it's a part of life, all you can do is deal with it. The sports fields are much like poker tables in that there's a lot of money on the table and people can and will do what they can to get their piece of it. As an avid poker player, you have to KNOW that cheating is going to occur or has occurred in your presence it's just the way things are and the way people are. Like Dan pointed out a player can still make money playing cards even though cheating may be sometimes going on. I don't think it happens near enough to make a difference in a solid player's career, but as I said earlier, to say that cheating does not occur is very naive, so KNOWING that it does occur at some point, a player basically just has to deal w/ it.

-D.J.

[D.J.]

Cheating is not rampant, however it does exist, wherever there is money involved, you can bet scams are near.

Mason,

How do you misread this?

-D.J.

[D.J.]

As I have told other people in the past, if you feel this way, then you should absolutely never sit in a poker game. So my questions to you are, do you play poker and where do you play?

Mason,
What you said about not playing at all makes no sense and is not even worth responding to. As far as do I play poker... no, I just make up all these posts for no reason because I have nothing else better to do. Now to answer your only relevant question, I live in LA and frequent all the local cardrooms, I also used to live in Las Vegas before here where I probably played at every card room available, and Dallas before that where they only have underground games.

Also, your statements contradict. First, you won't play high but you claim to have first hand knowledge of cheating in the big games. If that's the case, please be specific because I want to know.

I have second hand knowledge of cheating in the big games, if you would re-read the post. I am friends w/ a well respected pro whom you probably know, and that is the person who said they would never play w/ a couple of players b/c they cheat. For your second question, sorry, I'm not going to be specific about names that I myself can not confirm, I was merely relaying information from a respectable source.

-D.J.