open completing in the SB

[Henke]

HU this is a loosing attitude except against the loosest most predictable callingstations. The odds against you hitting the flop is about 2:1, if you check behind pf, you'll have to fold everytime SB bets, so it better be a predictable opponent!

Raising pf when HU is hardly bloating the pot. He will get 5:1 on the flop, which means he's wrong to call you with all draws but OESDs or stronger... OTOH you're getting 4:1 on your flop bluff, or 3:2 if you count pf.

But of course, if you know he's going to call, then the bets better be for value.

[MrWookie47]

This is a much better strategy in NL when you can raise enough to actually make it incorrect for them to call, but in limit, raising just bloats the pot and helps them to play better.

[Henke]

Just had to test your theory, third hand...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 2 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: 1.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
No showdown. Hero wins 1.50 BB. </font>

[baronzeus]

Against these opponents, raise good showdown hands (any PP, any Ace, probably any king) and bet it until river/resistance. You can usually check/call river.

[MrWookie47]

The converter shows some funky action. Could you perhaps tell me what happened in words? I think, though, it looks like you still disagree with me.

[detruncate]

I raise with any hand I want to play if I think my opponent will fold often enough to make the raise +EV on this basis alone. I raise hands with an obvious equity edge against anyone. I limp liberally with playable hands vs someone loose enough that a raise won't be automatically +EV, and passive enough that I don't have to worry about being raised very often. I usually raise any playable hand against a tough opponent.

[Henke]

Ooops, missed proofreading the output from converter...

Anyway, it's partys f*****up heads up structure (didn't want to join a table and wait for all fold to SB who limp). I'm BB with AT[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB completes, I raise, he folds...

But yes, I still think we'll agree that we disagree, but I'm looking forward to more discussion when you post that post you where talking about...

Oh, just thought I would add a very possible though process for a typical party 0.5-1 player.

FishyFish post SB and looks down on 85o. All fold to FishyFish, who thinks it's worth playing this for ½ bet, and completes. Hero drives into the room in a brand new M1A1 Abraham and raises from BB. FishyFish thinks "Aw [censored], why did I complete with this trash! But I gotta call, maybe I'll hit something."

Flop comes KJ3, FishyFish quickly checks, hoping it will get checked through. But hero fires of the big gun, and blazes of another bet! FishyFish has seen hero raise with AK before and thinks this is no time for battle, and folds. Hero says: good fold son, I had KK (and slips 32o face down to the muck).

The moral of that very bad story is that even passive fishes misses flops sometimes (about 70% of the time). To be able to pick pots those times is nice, and if they hit some bottom pair and call, well then it's time to check behind on the turn. Unless we also got lucky on the flop/turn and continue to value bet the hand to the river..

[Rev. Good Will]

[ QUOTE ]
Ooops, missed proofreading the output from converter...

Anyway, it's partys f*****up heads up structure (didn't want to join a table and wait for all fold to SB who limp). I'm BB with AT[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB completes, I raise, he folds...

But yes, I still think we'll agree that we disagree, but I'm looking forward to more discussion when you post that post you where talking about...

Oh, just thought I would add a very possible though process for a typical party 0.5-1 player.

FishyFish post SB and looks down on 85o. All fold to FishyFish, who thinks it's worth playing this for ½ bet, and completes. Hero drives into the room in a brand new M1A1 Abraham and raises from BB. FishyFish thinks "Aw [censored], why did I complete with this trash! But I gotta call, maybe I'll hit something."

Flop comes KJ3, FishyFish quickly checks, hoping it will get checked through. But hero fires of the big gun, and blazes of another bet! FishyFish has seen hero raise with AK before and thinks this is no time for battle, and folds. Hero says: good fold son, I had KK (and slips 32o face down to the muck).

The moral of that very bad story is that even passive fishes misses flops sometimes (about 70% of the time). To be able to pick pots those times is nice, and if they hit some bottom pair and call, well then it's time to check behind on the turn. Unless we also got lucky on the flop/turn and continue to value bet the hand to the river..

[/ QUOTE ]

nice story, but you forget sometimes fishyfish will sometimes call down with the nut low

[Dave G.]

Bah, I picked no, then realised the question was worded the other way around. YES, it is usually wrong to open complete from the SB. Why don't you raise and try to take it right there rather than play a hand that you're obviously not comfortable with being out of position for the whole hand? (If you were comfortable enough with the hand, then you wouldn't even think about open completing, you'd be raising it in the first place).