Facing a turn reraise with TPTK

[MN_Mime]

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I can't stand the idea of folding TPTK here because some unknown person played back at me.

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This is crazy. He didn't play back at you once, he played back at you twice. When he bets into on the turn, you can be pretty sure he can beat your pair of queens. And than he re-raises.

I think you have to fold.

-ropey

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I can't fold this readless and for 2 BB I can find out what he calls two cold with and what he gets aggressive with. That's cheaper than picking another spot to get to a showdown. And there's a reasonable chance that I'm best.

I hold the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], so I know he didn't just pick up a nut flush draw on the turn. If the 7 made a hand, I want to know that he's capable of drawing to a gutshot or a set with 3 overs on the board.

I think it's more likely he's saying that the 7 didn't help the poster and he's betting his TPTK or TPGK or pair & draw (QJ, T9 or pair+flush draw). Those hands would probably play back at the poster twice since the poster is also an unknown.

I call down.

[chief444]

Frank,

You're quickly cluttering this forum with pretty illogical posts. It would probably benefit you to spend some time reading the micro forum since you're obviously rather new to poker or just xxxxing around. Either way, please stop.

Chief

[Frank Zappy]

Chief,

I am new here but I'm a fast study and I've pretty much "groked" the overall tone of the fairly reasonable advise here and disagree with most of it wholeheartedly. I've posted my reasons and I'm not certainly not messing around; I thought you would have gathered as much by reading my posts.

Rest assured, I will be more inclined to keep my thoughts to myself in the future.

[Jake (The Snake)]

A few quick notes why I think calling down is better than folding:

-You have no read. I think it's a mistake to assume somebody as passive.

-Board is coordinated, opponent could easily have picked up draws with hands like QTo or T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

-You don't want people taking shots at you later, this is even more true since you just sat down.

-You only have to be good once out of 7-8 times to break even.

Against an unknown or aggressive player I'm calling down. Only against true passives will I fold here.

[PTjvs]

Against an unknown, I pretty much always going into calldown mode here. His play is consistant with flopping bottom/2nd set, but I think in general you are good here at least 1/3rd of the time, giving you plenty of odds to call down. As others have said, if he's horrible preflop call that made 2 pair, you have plenty of outs to improve yet as well. Also, the information you gain by seeing what hand he's played in this fashion isn't completely devoid of value.

jvs

Where did this game take place and what are the stakes?

I dont think he has pocket 77 because he wouldnt call two raises preflop with that. I think his reraise on the turn could mean he has made his straight with mabye J10 suited, or slowplayed QQ, KK, or AA. Since he is first to act, I would think he couldnt call a 3 bet preflop without a strong hand. It looks like TPTK is no good here. Even if he is a new player, does he look like the type that would be jamming a draw? You have no reads at all on him?

I dont think he is jamming a draw, he has a hand made already. I would call it down though, at least call the turn because if he is on a draw (which i believe he isnt) your hand may still be good and you can even improve your hand on the river.

[PTjvs]

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I dont think he has pocket 77 because he wouldnt call two raises preflop with that.

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This is small stakes. There are MORE players playing 2/4, 3/6 and the like who WILL call 3 cold with 77 than those good enough to fold it, IMO.

jvs

[chief444]

Frank,

I really didn't meant to discourage you from posting any more. But if you disagree with the majority of the advice given on this forum then it's likely that you just don't understand a lot about the game. I'm not saying it's all correct. But it's certainly not mostly wrong. And my assuming that you're fairly new to the game or at least fairly new to trying to learn the game has nothing to do with you not having many posts and everything to do with the content of those posts. So as I said you could probably pick up a lot of the basics just starting in the micro forum as a lot of the better posters here have.

Chief

When you guys advocate calling down, do you mean AFTER he's raised the turn and is facing the reraise? Because I find with TPTK, if it's HU and I pf raised and raised the flop, a donk bet by my opponent on the turn means I should just call it, not raise. Is this too conservative? Do we gain any value by raising our opponent on the turn?

Who knows mabye its 5/10...

I dont think he can call that 3 bet though regardless and then lead into the pot based on his position.