Law School

[Jdanz]

i care about it

edit: i see myself getting involved heavily in politics at some point, and law school is an in, and in a superficial world a piece of paper with a powerful name means a lot. This thread was more an attempt to start a discussion on law school's usefulness/non-usefullness in general, what are the characteristics that are most importants, what people liked/didn't how to get the most out of it, etc.

really, this is a slow pitch that anyone with some information in any regard can choose to enlighten some people with.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
i care about it

edit: i see myself getting involved heavily in politics at some point, and law school is an in, and in a superficial world a piece of paper with a powerful name means a lot. This thread was more an attempt to start a discussion on law school's usefulness/non-usefullness in general, what are the characteristics that are most importants, what people liked/didn't how to get the most out of it, etc.

really, this is a slow pitch that anyone with some information in any regard can choose to enlighten some people with.

[/ QUOTE ]

The most important skill in being a successful lawyer is the ability to get clients. If you don't know how to network and drum up business, etc. you will be best served learning these skills BEFORE you get involved with law school.

Otherwise, you may be heading for a trap. Lawyers get paid well in an absolute sense, but most of them make paltry money on a per-hour basis. Here is why ...

Law School, to a certain degree is a scam. From the first day, you are pushed to be ultra competitive (study long hours, etc.). Any jerkoff can get B's, but to get A's, you have to work disproportionately long hours. For example, I spent about 35 hours per week on my studies (including class time, which was de minimus given the fact I attended less than 30% of my classes) and got B's. I was not willing to spend 60+ hours to get A's. To get A's, you usually have to learn the black-letter minutiae. Of course, I have not ruled out the possibility that I am a jerkoff to begin with.

Anyhow, the student is led to believe that the ultimate goal is to work for a mega firm: the main draws are the esteem, and money. Therfore, it is wise to spend 70, 80 hours per week to get the A's. Guess what? Study 70, 80 hours per week and your prize is a job where you WORK 80 to 90 hours per week. Friggin' joke. Some people are well suited for that, but given the high turnover rates of these firms, my guess is not many are.

I met an attorney and she was an associate in a huge firm, she was married to a partner in another huge firm. Aside from her honeymoon, during the first 3 months of her marriage, she spend precisely TWO weekend days at home. This is on top of working 7 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. - and these west coast firms are considered soft by New York standards.

The big firms lure you in with all the promise of money and esteem. Once you get there, they turn you into a billing machine. Don't like working 14 hour days? No problem, another sucker will take your place. Get burned out and decide to get a nice in-house job? GREAT for the firm, who do you think will start sending them business? You.

The law school love perpetuating this "goal" as well. For every one that hits a "home run," they add to their roster of big shots. Law schools compete amonst themselves as well, you are merely a mark on the scorecard.

OK, where is this going. The students who fall for this stuff are THOSE WHO GO INTO LAW SCHOOL WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THEY REALLY WANT TO DO. You get dropped into a foreign environment and you merely adopt the goals that are foisted upon you. The students from the group who do not make the big firms, get a huge dose of reality in learning how to scramble for jobs. Most firms, big or small have to make a buck ... the 1 - 5's are prime for this task because they will accept low pay and work long hours to "learn the craft."

LESSON: DON'T BE A SAP. You don't sit down at a high stakes poker game without sizing up your competition (unless you are a sucker). Don't do this with your career or at least 3 years' of your life.

YOU NEED TO
1. Figure out precisely what you want to do. If it requires a law degree, go to law school.
2. Know where you want to do it, and for whom. Learn to network so that you can build up to the place you really want to work. Know ahead of time so that you can apply for internships.
3. If you are not sure, spend your time learning business skills, because these will serve you immensly in practice. Learn how to cold-call and close deals. Learn to network without being bashful about what you want. Don't fool yourself, unless you want to do paper work all day for $20 an hour, you need to get business.
4. Make contacts. The best law jobs are in-house. They deal with problems up front, then when the [censored] hits the fan, they farm it out and monitor from afar.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
i care about it

edit: i see myself getting involved heavily in politics at some point, and law school is an in, and in a superficial world a piece of paper with a powerful name means a lot. This thread was more an attempt to start a discussion on law school's usefulness/non-usefullness in general, what are the characteristics that are most importants, what people liked/didn't how to get the most out of it, etc.

really, this is a slow pitch that anyone with some information in any regard can choose to enlighten some people with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Narrow down "politics."

[Claunchy]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't sit down at a high stakes poker game without sizing up your competition

[/ QUOTE ]
You lost me there.

Just kidding, very nice post. I'm a prospective law student as well and have never heard a perspective quite like this one.

[Jdanz]

elected office

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
elected office

[/ QUOTE ]

I know some people from college who had the same plan and who are starting to run for local office. They worked at big firms. One lost an election last year in Redondo Beach. He's never going to get elected for anything for the simple reason that he's not a particularly likeable person. I don't mean that he's a jerk, just that there's the type of person that people naturally gravitate toward and give off positive feelings. I'm not saying whether that's you or not, but he is probably going to be a lawyer for the rest of his life because of that.

Anyway, have you ever worked for an elected official?

[Jdanz]

yeah, and there is a lot of stuff i don't like about it, but as ridiculous as it sounds, i envision it as incredibly frustrating but ultimately satisfying.

And sorry about your friend, i don't know if i have that sort of magnatism but i don't know if i don't either.

I'm not terribly worried about losing an election as there are plenty of appointed positions in policy type stuff that i'd find enjoyable, it's just not the path that i really see myself on.

[beset7]

I'm a 2L and my number one piece of advice would be unless you have a beneficiary who is going to pay for it all don't go to law school until you are very sure you want to practice law. Even then, if you go and after 1L realize you don't want to practice and have no political aims, etc just quit and cut your losses. A lot of my friends have lined up like lemmings in law school, lost three good years developed ulcers become alcholics graduated and realized they can't stand law. The legal economy is not what it used to be and things are very competitive: why straddle yourself with a high five/low six figure debt if it isn't something you REALLY want to do? Similarly, I'm not sure have a J.D. really does much for a political career in the current climate.

Also, I concur with anyone who says take time off in between undergrad and law school. I took three years off, worked in banking and hung out with a lot of attorneys that I know and got a feel for it. Only once I was about 90% sure I had the right personality/make-up for the job and would enjoy working like a dog did I enroll.

As per school considerations, it all depends on your goals. Don't let US News and World Report tell you where to go though. Lots of 2nd tier regional schools have excellent programs and great reputations with local medium and large-sized firms.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
First thing you HAVE to do is take an LSAT prep course.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to politely disagree with this. Myself and many others that I know had top-notch LSAT scores without shelling out the dough for these classes. You can buy the materials these people use to teach the classes for $20 at B&N and do it yourself.