from an Ed Miller quiz...

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
A3? 56?? 35?? I dont think any of these hands are caling 2 bets preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever played live 2/4? Not only are they cold-calling pf with these hands, they're cold-calling on the flop, as well.

I think you have to lead this flop the first time... and have to check-raise the second time. Button may not lead the turn again, and you can't let a big street get checked through.

-d

I didn't notice it was 2/4 live... my play would have been for party 2/4 or live 5/10 or 10/20


edit: its not live, he was asking about party 2/4

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't notice it was 2/4 live... my play would have been for party 2/4 or live 5/10 or 10/20


edit: its not live, he was asking about party 2/4

[/ QUOTE ]

OP:
[ QUOTE ]
The opponents in the hand are poor, live game players.

[/ QUOTE ]

-d

[oreogod]

Well you really have two options here, if u did get the flop suites right...you can get aggressive, fold out all the weak draws and keep the only strong draw in with you (the flush draw)...or u can keep everyone in (pretty much drawing dead)...and then bet/raise the turn. You dont have much to worry about in this hand, if there is a flush, they are staying, going nowhere...I think u get more value by keeping the dead money in the pot.

Time to go see what Eddie M has to say about this situation.

[jordanx]

Honestly, it depends on the specific players on this flop and my table image. You flopped a monster and want to build a big pot.

In some cases, raising is the way to do that, in others, calling is.

[Jake (The Snake)]

While it is generally correct to fastplay big hands, I think this hand is a good example of why you should really stop and think about how to extract the most value from your opponents.

In Ed's answer , he makes a really good point: It is almost certainly better for you to get 1 SB each from 1 flush draw and 3 people drawing almost dead than to get 2 SB from just the flush draw.

"with a set, usually your goal should be to get the weakest draws to pay as much as possible. "

My own personal opinion is that a slowplay is probably correct up until around 22 SB or so where backdoor flush draws become correct to call for one bet.

[oreogod]

Thanks for the link by the way, went over the hands and found them to be full of good stuff.

[swatkaizen]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the link by the way, went over the hands and found them to be full of good stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, thank for posting this! Really good stuff. I love the detailed responses and explanations like in SSH - my fav part of the book. If you know of any more out there, can you post them or PM them to me?

I went through the rest on that site (very helpful) and found a really minor mistake if anyone cares. On this one ....

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the set of hands that I chose is not particularly lucky for your hand. Among the hands I chose (6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]), there is one ace out (bad for your hand), and one each of your kings and queens are in others' hands. Also, two of your hearts are tied up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regarding the heart comment: This leaves 9 hearts in 38 unknown remaining cards as opposed to 11 hearts in 50 unkown remaining cards. It's actually a better ratio for you.

/nit [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Crveballin]

Here is a very similiar hand to the quiz, played with the advocated slow play that possibly cost me the pot. Given a raise on the flop I might have been able to push villian off his hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (10.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

[brettbrettr]

The flop in this hand is not much like the flop in the OP.