did phil ivey choke?

[sammy_g]

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No one can say that he choked, but I think his reputation took a hit.

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Yeah, he made it only to the final few dozen in a tournament with over 5000 players. Terrible showing.

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I think it was assumed that someday he would win the ME;now that is not so clear.

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You can't assume this about anyone anymore with fields these sizes, no matter how good.

[memphis57]

I don't think we have enough info to really say what happened. I think we need to get to the point in the WSOP, at least, where they publish an entire PartyPoker-style hand history for the entire tournament, maybe even showing all the hole cards. Lots of people will object to the info that gives away, but look at baseball, it's the stat-nerd who contributed largely to its popularity and the value of the info there approaches that of poker. But that could be a pipe dream.

Anyhow, failing that, below is a compilation of the CardPlayer updates that include the word Ivey on the next to last day. I haven't had time to study it yet - have to go to work, so I'll post this and then study it once I get there (yes, I work haaaardt). But I expect what it will show is that Ivey played his same style all through, and was busted by normal variance in that high-variance style he plays. He probably has a chip count level where he plans to back off to more conservative, but obviously had not hit it yet.

I see no reason why this performance says that he'll never win the WSOP, as one poster seemed to say. He'll make it one day, probably 3 or 4 times at least before he's done. And he'll come close a dozen or more times.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 15:54:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 4 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, Raymer comes in for a raise, and Hachem calls from the big blind. The flop comes Qd-7c-4c, Raymer bets, and Hachem folds.


Hand 5 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, he comes in for a standard raise, Black reraises, and Ivey pulls some chips from his stack to shuffle them in one hand while he holds his cards in the other. Ivey counts out the chips and reraises right back at Black (I believe the amount is $500,000). Andrew Black, who is wearing his sunglasses upside-down (Marcel Luske-style), is taking his time here. Black moves all in, and Ivey quickly folds. Black shows Ad-2d as he collects the pot.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 16:05:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 7 - Andrew Black has the button in seat 8, and Ivey raises, winning the blinds and antes.


Hand 8 - Joe Connor has the button in seat 9, Ivey raises, and Hachem calls. The flop comes Js-Jd-6c, Ivey checks, Hachem bets $150,000, and Ivey reraises to about $650,000. Hachem thinks briefly before saying, "All in," and Ivey quickly folds.


Date / Time: 2005-07-14 16:22:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 13 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, and everyone folds to Black in the big blind, giving him the blinds and antes.


Hand 14 - Joseph Hachem has the button in seat 7, Ivey raises, and Connor calls from the big blind. The flop comes As-Js-2c, Connor bets, and Ivey folds.




Date / Time: 2005-07-14 16:44:00
Title: Aaron Kanter Doubles Up Through Greg Raymer at the Featured Table
Log: Hand 19 - Aaron Kanter has the button in seat 3, Raymer limps, and Ivey checks his option. The flop comes Kc-6c-5c, and both players check. The turn card is the Ad, and they check again. The river card is the 8s, Ivey bets out, and Raymer folds. Ivey takes the pot.


Hand 20 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, Raymer raises, and Kanter calls. The flop comes 6c-5d-3h, and there's a bet and a call. The turn card is the 7h, Kanter bets $600,000, and the two players are quickly all in. Raymer shows pocket kings (Kd-Kh), and Kanter has Qh-Jh. Kanter has a flush draw, and needs to catch a heart to win the pot. The river card is the 2h, and Kanter makes his flush to double up through Greg Raymer.



Kanter's supporters are ecstatic, and cheering loudly, but the rest of the room is nearly silent as crowd-favorite Greg Raymer loses a huge pot. You can distinctly hear the cheers, but the silence in the rest of the room is almost overpowering. Aaron Kanter now has somewhere between $3.5 and $4 million, while Greg Raymer is crippled down to about $400,000.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 16:48:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 21 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, and Hachem raises from the small blind, winning the blinds and antes.


Hand 22 - Joseph Hachem has the button in seat 7, and Phan raises, winning the blinds and antes.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 17:03:00
Title: Official Featured Table Chip Counts
Log: Here are the official chip counts from the Featured Table at the break:


Seat 1: Greg Raymer - $415,000
Seat 2: Tim Phan - $1,500,000
Seat 3: Aaron Kanter - $3,780,000
Seat 5: Ayhan Alsancak - $1,100,000
Seat 6: Phil Ivey - $2,815,000
Seat 7: Joseph Hachem - $4,630,000
Seat 8: Andrew Black - $3,385,000
Seat 9: Joe Connor - $1,700,000


Date / Time: 2005-07-14 17:24:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 27 - Tim Phan has the button in seat 2, and he raises, winning the blinds and antes.


Hand 28 - Aaron Kanter has the button in seat 3, Phan raises, and Ivey calls from the big blind. The flop comes 8h-8d-3h, Ivey checks, Phan bets, and Ivey folds.


Date / Time: 2005-07-14 17:29:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 29 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, and he sees the flop against Hachem in the big blind. The flop comes As-7h-6d, Hachem checks, Alsancak bets, and Hachem folds.


Hand 30 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, and Alsancak raises, winning the blinds and antes.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 17:56:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 36 - Aaron Kanter has the button in seat 3, unknown action. (No flop.)


Hand 37 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, and Black raises, winning the blinds and antes.


Hand 38 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, and Alsancak raises, winning the blinds and antes.


Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:04:00
Title: Featured Table Approximate Chip Counts
Log: Tournament Director Johnny Grooms announces the following chip counts:


Seat 1: Steve Dannenmann - $6,000,000
Seat 3: Aaron Kanter - $5,500,000
Seat 5: Ayhan Alsancak - $2,300,000
Seat 6: Phil Ivey - $2,500,000
Seat 7: Joseph Hachem - $3,700,000
Seat 8: Andrew Black - $5,500,000
Seat 9: Scott Lazar - $2,300,000

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:11:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 40 - Andrew Black has the button in seat 8, Alsancak raises, Hachem calls, Black reraises, and everyone folds. Black takes the pot.


Hand 41 - There is a dead button in seat 8, and four players see the flop: Ivey, Black, Lazar, Dannenmann. The flop comes Jc-6s-2s, and the betting is uncertain, but I believe somebody bet, Dannenmann raised, and everyone folded. Regardless, Dannenmann takes the pot.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:15:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 42 - Scott Lazar has the button in seat 9, Alsancak raises, Ivey reraises, and Alsancak folds.


Hand 43 - Steve Dannenmann has the button in seat 1, Ivey raises, and Alsancak calls. The flop comes Jc-8s-3s, Alsancak checks, Ivey bets, and Alsancak calls. The turn card is the 5s, putting three spades on the board, and both players check. The river card is the 3h, and it looks like Alsancak bets, and Ivey folds.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:26:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 45 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, Lazar raises, Dannenmann calls, and Hachem calls from the big blind. The flop comes Qh-6s-2s, and the action after that is unclear.


Hand 46 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, Kanter raises, and Ivey calls. The flop comes Kd-Kc-Jh, Kanter bets, and Ivey folds.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:43:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 50 - Steve Dannenmann has the button in seat 1, Lazar limps, Dannenmann limps, Kanter limps, and Alsancak raises from the big blind. Everyone folds, and Alsancak collects the pot.


Hand 51 - Aaron Kanter has the button in seat 3, Lazar limps, Alsancak limps, and Ivey checks his option. The flop comes Ah-Jd-8d, Alsancak bets, Ivey folds, and Lazar calls. The turn card is the 8h, Alsancak bets $500,000, and Lazar folds.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:46:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 52 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, and it's Ivey against Hachem in a battle of the blinds. The flop comes Ad-7h-5h, and they both check. The turn card is the Qc, and they check again. The river is the 10c, and they check again. They show down their cards and Ivey collects the pot.


Hand 53 - Phil Ivey has the button in seat 6, and it's heads up between Ivey and Black. The flop comes out, Black checks, Ivey bets, and Black folds. Ivey takes the pot.

Date / Time: 2005-07-14 18:53:00
Title: Featured Table Update
Log: Hand 54 - Joseph Hachem has the button in seat 7, Alsancak limps, Ivey limps, Hachem limps, Black limps, and Lazar checks his option. The flop comes Ks-Jh-5d, Black bets, and everyone folds. Black collects the pot.


Hand 55 - Andrew Black has the button in seat 8, he raises, and Lazar reraises all in. Black asks for a count, and they spend a good deal of time just talking about Lazar's chips. Black counts out his own chips before leaning back in his chair and putting his hands on his head. He thinks for a while before folding. Lazar takes the pot.


Date / Time: 2005-07-14 19:04:00
Title: Phil Ivey Eliminated in 20th Place ($304,680)
Log: Hand 58 - Aaron Kanter has the button in seat 3, and Black raises, winning the blinds and antes.


Hand 59 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, and it looks like Kanter limps, Alsancak raises, Ivey calls, and the action after that is unclear.


Before you know it Kanter and Ivey are both all in, with pocket kings (Kc-Ks) for Kanter, and pocket jacks (Jd-Jc) for Ivey. Ivey is the shorter stack, and needs to improve to stay alive in this tournament. The flop comes Kd-8d-4h, and Kanter takes a huge lead with a set of kings. Ivey needs to catch running jacks or running diamonds to stay alive. The turn card is the 10d, and Ivey can win with any diamond. The river card is the 3h, and Phil Ivey is eliminated in 20th place, earning $304,680.

[AceHigh]

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either way, he probably should have been more patient and not attempted that.

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I wonder if these pro's are so used to pushing players around that they have a hard time adjusting in the big event? A lot of there opponents are used to playing internet tournaments where you don't have time to sit a wait for big hands. And the others have been sitting around watching guys like Ivey and Juanda showdown 75s enough to know they probably can't take a lot of heat.

[scott8]

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either way, he probably should have been more patient and not attempted that.

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I wonder if these pro's are so used to pushing players around that they have a hard time adjusting in the big event? A lot of there opponents are used to playing internet tournaments where you don't have time to sit a wait for big hands. And the others have been sitting around watching guys like Ivey and Juanda showdown 75s enough to know they probably can't take a lot of heat.

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Lee Watkinson went broke the same way.

[TomHimself]

I'm upset I wanted him to win [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Maybe he was tired from playing on day 1c [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I think he took uneccesary risks to show the table he was bosss.

and to a poster above greg raymer took a bad beat they guy wasnt semi bluffing until the turn after he called the flop with queen high obviously trying to bluff later which worked for him lmao

[Cased Heel]

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He always seems to come to the final table with the lead, just to finish 2nd or 3rd.

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He just won a bracelet a few weeks ago.

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Oh, sorry. Try this: www.dictionary.com and enter "anomoly".

Cheers!

[Salva135]

To say that Ivey "choked" is to imply that the pressure of the situation and the stakes involved caused him to play at a level less than his best. Given that Ivey plays for more money on a daily basis than many of us will see in our entire lives, it's a little preposterous to think that the stakes involved had any effect on him at all. In fact, I always figured his greatest advantage over the rest of the field was that he was more used to this kind of money than anyone else in the field, and thus would be the least affected by the stakes.

From the hand-by-hand accounts, it looks like he played his regular selectively aggressive game, and ran into a combination of good cards from his opponents and players who simply weren't afraid to play back at him. Undoubtedly all of the players left knew his game well and the style he plays, and they deliberately fought back.

The only thing I don't understand is why Ivey didn't adjust his game mid-way when he realized his aggro game wasnt working, i.e., tightened up a bit to maintain his stack until the later stages of the night. But, at those blind levels, a few instances of poor timing with his aggression and half his stack is gone, and he just couldn't recover.

Is it disappointing? Yes. Could/should he have done better? Almost certainly. Does it detract from the quality of his performance in the ME and his status as one of the best in the world? No way in hell.

[unimproved]

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He always seems to come to the final table with the lead, just to finish 2nd or 3rd.

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He just won a bracelet a few weeks ago.

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Oh, sorry. Try this: www.dictionary.com and enter "anomoly".

Cheers!

[/ QUOTE ]


"No entry found for anomoly.

Did you mean anomaly?"


...and yes, his fifth WSOP bracelet in five years is quite obviously anomalous, isn't it.

[CDSNUTSINYAMOUTH]

A lot of you guys have said the correct things about his play I believe. I mean just imagine it this way...if say someone like Dan Harrington had 4.6 million, 2nd place in chips..do you think he would be spewing them away...and finish 20th?
I just can't see that. Phil Ivey was playing a high volatile game...I mean I won't really know for sure..but when Matusow says Phil played so bad...at least we get some sort of confirmation that Ivey's bust out..wasn't say like Greg's where Ivey had no control of the situation.
Ivey was saying stuff about how tv poker has changed the game..and I believe he mentioned how it alters his image. I don't think he adjusted to that on the 2nd to the last day. I think he actually needed to sit back and wait for hands....and let someone attack him when he had it. Then over plays so many hands it seems...we've seen it before like AQ, recently 66 at the WPT hilton etc.
Honestly, out of all the games, I think Ivey's worst game is in fact NL hold 'em. I don't think he's been playing it that long...he probably has some leaks and I'm sure he'll figure it out after all these disappointing finishes at the final tables, etc.
It's just that this maybe the best chance he'll ever have. Everyone keeps saying next year...but will he have the stamina and the needed luck to plow through a 8,000 person field? Honestly it was his best chance...I'm just a huge fan...so disappointed he didn't at least make it to the final table.

[mlagoo]

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He always seems to come to the final table with the lead, just to finish 2nd or 3rd.

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He just won a bracelet a few weeks ago.

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Oh, sorry. Try this: www.dictionary.com and enter "anomoly".

Cheers!

[/ QUOTE ]


No entry found for anomoly.

Did you mean anomaly?


...and yes, his fifth WSOP bracelet in five years is quite obviously anomalous, isn't it.

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yowza!