Raymer and BIG STACK poker...

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
But you Raymer groupies have to chill out.

[/ QUOTE ]You made the following claim:[ QUOTE ]
At the final table last year the other players repeatedly got all their chips in as favorites against Greg preflop and Greg sucked out.

[/ QUOTE ]I asked you to name them. Either substantiate your claim or retract. This has nothing to do with being a "groupie," it has to do with YOUR claim.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But you Raymer groupies have to chill out.

[/ QUOTE ]You made the following claim:[ QUOTE ]
At the final table last year the other players repeatedly got all their chips in as favorites against Greg preflop and Greg sucked out.

[/ QUOTE ]I asked you to name them. Either substantiate your claim or retract. This has nothing to do with being a "groupie," it has to do with YOUR claim.

[/ QUOTE ]

He busted aces all in preflop for one.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the final table last year the other players repeatedly got all their chips in as favorites against Greg preflop and Greg sucked out. His stack going into the final table was impressive, but his final table play was nothing special.

[/ QUOTE ]You wanna name all of those hands? I can think of one or two. His play was exactly what one should do with a big stack. You also ignore the fact that he was taking millions of dollars in chips literally with his play because ESPN doesn't show the multitude of times the table folded to his many aggressive raises. Raymer played just fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only saw what was on TV, but in Greg's ESPN commentary, he says that he had only 2 of what he would considered major suckouts in the ME, and that both were at the final table. (You know how poker players sometimes exaggerate.) I don't remember the hands, but both were shown, and both were big suckouts. I don't remember any other times on TV when he sucked out at the final table. And Greg got sucked out a couple times on the TV final table too.

Again, having only the TV hands to go on, Moneymaker sucked out incredibly more often in 2003 than Greg did in 2004. As Mike Caro says, no one ever won a major tournament without getting lucky, and Greg had his share of luck. I don't think he is in the same class as Doyle or Ivey or Lederer yet, but he is certainly an expert player, and when he is playing his "A" game and getting his share of breaks, he is hard to beat, even in the WSOP.

His commentary about the final table was very interesting. He said that when they were down to 10 players, and playing to the final 9 before stopping for the night, many players were only playing to avoid the cut. During that time, he was stealing as much as he could. He ran his stack from $5 mill to $8 mil during the 10-player session. Obviously, he needed a combination of luck and skill to get to that point with $5 mil, but he knew what to do with it when he got there.

[NYCNative]

What helped Greg the most was an amazing penchant for winning coin tosses. He ran incredibly hot in such situations which I believe is a lot more important to winning a tournament with a ton of players than sucking out a lot because a good player will not often be in a situation where they are a massive dog (and when they do, they will obviously lose more often than not) but there are a LOT of coin tosses involved given the nature of HE.

I can recall his Tens against Glen Hughes' Aces. I think that he had one more hand at the final table I cannot remember where he was a big dog when the money went in. But I don't see how two hands is "numerous" and I welcome someone to detail the hands I am missing here.

[sekrah]

Raymer had his Aces busted a couple times too.. Do you have a point?? Or are you just spewing a pile of $hit?

[Army Eye]

[ QUOTE ]
He isn't doing this via dumb luck (Varkonyi) and several miracle two-outters (Moneymaker).


[/ QUOTE ]

Could you recount the several two-outers that Moneymaker hit?

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Raymer had his Aces busted a couple times too.. Do you have a point?? Or are you just spewing a pile of $hit?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was asked a question, and I answered it.
I don't know what else I can do. Raymer seems like a good guy. He seems like an extremely strong player. I just don't think he did anything all that exciting at the final table last year. He played solid poker, had a big stack, and won. This is my last post in this thread, you guys can go back to looking at nude pix of Greg instead of reading my posts.

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
I was asked a question, and I answered it.

[/ QUOTE ]No you didn't. You made a claim of "numerous times." Surely you can recall even a few of these "numerous" times above and beyond the two that I am willing to concede (Hughes' Aces and one other I cannot recall).

[jzieg2313]

The only times I remember is the first hand, Aces (Wasn't it McClain or something?) and Tens (Raymer). Also I believe his A/T beat Mattias's A/K. Both were standard calls by Greg though.

JZ

[RowdyZ]

The other suckout Raymer said he had the final table was his A10 vs Andersons AK when they got all the money in preflop and he ended up with a straight.

RZ