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#21
07-12-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
I like the turn raise, but I think checking the river makes sense after they both call. Either could have you beat, but you've shown so much strength that AA or AK or two pair may fear KK.
I think the turn raise is very good. You'll fold out hands like 7x or Ax behind you, and if you're behind you can take a free river. With your outs and another caller, you're not losing that much when you get three-bet. 
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#24
07-18-2005, 02:45 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
[ QUOTE ]
I, too, do not understand the turn raise. [/ QUOTE ] He thought a set was possible, but remember the protect hand in case Big blind is "full of sh!t"
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#25
07-18-2005, 05:49 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] plus raising doesn't protect your hand [/ QUOTE ] I think it does. If you were in LP with 79s (not diamonds) and you somehow got to the turn, would you call getting 12:1 with 0-3 outs? How about if you were getting 23:1? I think the difference is considerable. [/ QUOTE ] If I have 79s (not diamonds) and somehow got to the turn, you cannot protect your hand against me, 'cause I'm very loose and not folding [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#26
07-18-2005, 05:58 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'd pop a raise on the river. He's playing his cards like he has an overpair between a 88-QQ. [/ QUOTE ] You misread the action. I bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] No, he meant raise the river instead of the turn. But I wouldn't do either. I'd call the turn and call the river. I don't like the turn raise, although it's an easy fold to a 3-bet.
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#27
07-18-2005, 06:12 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd pop a raise on the river. He's playing his cards like he has an overpair between a 88-QQ. [/ QUOTE ] You misread the action. I bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] No, he meant raise the river instead of the turn. But I wouldn't do either. I'd call the turn and call the river. I don't like the turn raise, although it's an easy fold to a 3-bet. [/ QUOTE ] Not with a flush draw.
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#28
07-18-2005, 06:25 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
[ QUOTE ]
Not with a flush draw. [/ QUOTE ] Whoa, totally missed that part. That makes me dislike the turn raise even more. If we're behind, a number of river cards can improve us to the best hand, so there's no reason to raise/fold the turn. I'm calling the turn, and raising the river improved -- calling unimproved.
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#29
07-21-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
I understand some of the posters dislike of the turn raise but as long as there's at least a reasonable chance you are ahead of the BB, I think the raise is fine.
You have 2 players after you who if you just call, will be clearly correct to call with 2 and 3 outers (pocket pairs, gutshots, naked aces, etc). By raising, you badly injure their odds and possibly cause them to make a mistake. Luke
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#30
07-21-2005, 03:28 PM
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Re: KQs, standard value betting or overplayed?
[ QUOTE ]
If we're behind, a number of river cards can improve us to the best hand, so there's no reason to raise/fold the turn. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You have 2 players after you who if you just call, will be clearly correct to call with 2 and 3 outers (pocket pairs, gutshots, naked aces, etc). By raising, you badly injure their odds and possibly cause them to make a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] I believe this is a good reason to raise.
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