"Fold, keep your image tight so you can steal more later"

[The Yugoslavian]

citanul,

Thank you for posting on this topic. I remember Eastbay's thread but due to lack of discussion perhaps I didn't respond.

I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with your thoughts on this topic.

I unfortunately don't have time to attempt to concisely lay out my thoughts, [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Even worse, I'm not sure I can put them into the proper logical structure to be read side by side with your well structured post.

The crux of what I'd say would be:

Psychologically, at some point your opponents *do* adjust to you. Not only do they adjust, but when they adjust they over-adjust killing some or all of your ROI boosting 'standard' plays (they also *really* kill their ROI at the same time in these situations...but it doesn't matter one bit). I think there are ways to prolong these crucial points by 'keeping your image tight' early on in marginal situations.

Interestingly enough, this psychological phenomenon also allows one to make strange, very exploitable, seemingly chip spewing plays that will be long term winners if made at *just* the right time. Gigabet and Lorinda I'd imagine understand what I'm trying to say here (and actually are able to implement such an idea profitably)....I'm not sure who else will.

Yugoslav

[curtains]

My quickly summarized opinion on the matter....your image is irrelevant early in the tournament and you should pay almost no attention to it.

Later on when it becomes 2-5 handed, your image does play a part and some plays in which the EV difference is close could swing the other way for image purposes or because of your image.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
My quickly summarized opinion on the matter....your image is irrelevant early in the tournament and you should pay almost no attention to it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I don't know about this. I play in many tournaments where at level 3 or 4 someone says to me, "Are you EVER going to play a hand?" By making a strong impression on one particular player, I can sometimes get him to advertise on my behalf. Suddenly, he draws everyone's attention to the fact that I've been playing tight -- and the other players have no reason to distrust his claim.
But even if no one says anything, players DO notice that you've been folding a lot, and give your pushes some more credit.

[Freudian]

I think you are right. The common forum wisdom is that poor players don't notice things and that people don't notice things early.

This conversation is from a 5+1 limit HE experiment where I only played premium hands, seeing if I could basically fold my way into the money. Both players that are chatting are total fish. They picked up on my tightness.

[curtains]

Honestly no one in any sit and go ive ever played has made a comment about how tight I was playing in over 2000 tournaments, with plenty of them being at lower buyins.

[Freudian]

I was of course disgustingly tight since I decided to only play AA-JJ, AK-AQs or something. So it was level 7 and I played once outside the blinds.

What is more common is that some idiot with Pokerprophecy is starting to talk about my winrate and that people should watch out for me because I am a pro. That modifies the behaviour of even the fish at the table. I don't mind though since I get to steal from players I would hesitate pushing into.

[sully4321]

my style of play is usually tight-aggressive. however, i do bluff alot and try to buy the pot when possible / worth the risk. to compensate for this loose part of ym game, i developed a habit of always showing my hand when it's strong if i take down a pot without a showdown -- this establishes my tight, solid image which allows me to bluff and buy pots throughout the game.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

Honestly no one in any sit and go ive ever played has made a comment about how tight I was playing in over 2000 tournaments, with plenty of them being at lower buyins.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet it's because you're not as tight as I am. I do things like fold AJo in MP when it's folded to me.

[Apathy]

I haven't read through this thread yet but good OP citanul. The most ridiculous thing I hear a lot is folding the SB in level 1 for 5 more chips "for image purposes" with like 5 limpers. That is insane. With any two. Period.

[wuwei]

Happy birthday, tighty [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]