2000 nl.....(99)....I feel like a pansy?

[mgsimpleton]

all of you people who say or think "it's hard to continue a bluff against a lead because i could have a 2 or 66 when i'm leading." well obviously you could have those but waaaaaay more likely you have 77, 88, 99, TT, JJ, etc. and i said already and AZK agreed, this is too easy a board to steal away from those hands. check call check fold is problematic because it's 6 max - his two big cards could be ANY TWO big cards... so to give him a virtually free shot at the river OOP is problematic because 2 of 5 cards hurt you and you have NO idea what they are, so if you have to snap off another "bluff" on the river it will be tough... do you autofold when the A hits? he could easily have KQ, etc.

i still think a check raise because people will rarely continue with a check raise on a bluff (as long as it isn't a check min raise or something stupid) - their folding equity is so low in their eyes when stacks are smaller and pot is bigger unless they KNOW you're planning to fold to an all in... which they don't. you could have been slow playing ahuge PP preflop... anyway. yeah. check raise. don't lead. my ten cents.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think that if you give him something like 22-AA/AT-AK and you assume that he will fire the flop with all hands, fire again on turn only with hands that beat you and will check all hands worse than yours and will fire again on the river when checked to with all hands no matter the turn and river cards (which is obviously a simplification, but not necessarily TOO far away from an average player's plan) then c/c, c/f, c/c is not a bad line, I don't think. However, if an ace hits the turn or river you are now behind enough hands that you should probably c/f. Any other paint, you're still ahead enough to justify a call, I believe, although it obviously depends on the specific board, etc. for the likelihood that he would actually fire a bluff on the river.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that if you give him something like 22-AA/AT-AK and you assume that he will fire the flop with all hands, fire again on turn only with hands that beat you and will check all hands worse than yours and will fire again on the river when checked to with all hands no matter the turn and river cards (which is obviously a simplification, but not necessarily TOO far away from an average player's plan) then c/c, c/f, c/c is not a bad line, I don't think. However, if an ace hits the turn or river you are now behind enough hands that you should probably c/f. Any other paint, you're still ahead enough to justify a call, I believe, although it obviously depends on the specific board, etc. for the likelihood that he would actually fire a bluff on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, i just think that in these situations, c/c, c/f, c/c its problematic because you have no idea what a bluff is on the river and it could cost a lot when the J hits to see he was raising with QJs originally - agree? this might still be a good line, but no matter what, it's an expensive one.

[mgsimpleton]

this is also why i might reraise 99 from SB 6 max. and when i say might i mean, often do. especially with the button calling, by only calling preflop you are setting yourself up to only play for set value or put yourself in this problematic situation postflop when it's rags.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that if you give him something like 22-AA/AT-AK and you assume that he will fire the flop with all hands, fire again on turn only with hands that beat you and will check all hands worse than yours and will fire again on the river when checked to with all hands no matter the turn and river cards (which is obviously a simplification, but not necessarily TOO far away from an average player's plan) then c/c, c/f, c/c is not a bad line, I don't think. However, if an ace hits the turn or river you are now behind enough hands that you should probably c/f. Any other paint, you're still ahead enough to justify a call, I believe, although it obviously depends on the specific board, etc. for the likelihood that he would actually fire a bluff on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, i just think that in these situations, c/c, c/f, c/c its problematic because you have no idea what a bluff is on the river and it could cost a lot when the J hits to see he was raising with QJs originally - agree? this might still be a good line, but no matter what, it's an expensive one.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure. And it is -EV if you are going to be behind too often on the river. Sure you feel like a jackass when he hits his QJ on the river. But you feel like a king when you call his full pot bluff on the river and take down a nice pot from his missed AK. The question is just the frequency with which the different events occur. And more importantly the predictable behaviour of the villain on the turn.

[creedofhubris]

Playing back against an unknown PFR with a mid pair is super high variance poker.

With that in mind, a case can be made for any move. I like fold, raise, call in that order.